Feyd tries me at bp, but i lock and fight
Ebony and Ivory, a duet by Stevie Wonder and Frank Sinatra
Stevie: 'I am black and you are whiiite.'
Frankie: 'You are blind as a bat and I have sight, side by side you are my amigo, negro, let's not fiiight.'
What about the party bug that FRs use to get MELS?
Wow I never thought this would be one of those logs where the comments reach 60...
I brought it up because I wanted to illustrate that the easiest battlepoints in the game are taken for the sole purpose of getting around failkill. I made the claim earlier, and I thought I'd bring it to life with a small example.
Pallasch, they should be punished to the full extent of the 'law' if caught abusing bugs. I don't hold for favoritism, not even for myself. I prefer to get by on my own (with a little help from my friends, of course) without any type of special treatment from the Ainu/people in charge, and without exploiting loopholes/bugs. Maybe that's just me, though.
'C) exploit loopholes and bugs, then usually get nuked for it.'
How about the ER's that exploit loopholes and bugs and aren't even given so much as a slap on the hand? For example, the mass abuse of the battlepoint bug when failkill was supposed to apply there, or the party bug that some ER's use to get MELS without taking damage?
Qfm: Yes, someone did say that recently on the IC comm, but I can't attest that it was Khulzder. Probably was, but I don't remember. Anyways...just wondering what the point of bringing that up was?
A friend told me that Khulzder recently said on ER comm, in fact, that he wanted help taking Anduin so that he could 'screw up BKD golding in Linhir'
Contrast that with the amount of 'work' it takes to just make one ER region yellow.
Really, it's not a matter of doing work. Anduin, NR, and the undeeps are among the easiest ones done, and they're almost always as far as ERs go, so that they can paint over half of the map yellow and not have to worry about failkill. It's rarely about taking over, it's usually about getting some kills.
Feyd, how many battlepoints are there in ER lands? 6. FR lands? 13. You want all the evil bp's to be as easy as some of the free ones? So you can do half the work ERs do and be done with it? It won't happen. Of course ER battlepoints are harder to start to take over. There's only a damn handful of them.
'As for you whining that High pass is far away from DG, bullshit!!!'
I.. am amazed how you found that whining. I mean, that wasn't even my main point. My point was that if anyone from Dun Ghash goes out, hurts the DG bp and goes back in, FRs do the same with High Pass. I even mentioned that I had never heard anyone complain about that before, and I was certainly not complaining. I stated that 'people will always find something to bitch about'. I was referring to you.
Just look at the numbers.. at any given time there are at least 3 times as many FRs than ERs. On average. Do you think some of the ERs aren't tired of bping as well? Some ERs are tired, some FRs are tired. The rest keep going on. Life goes on. Move on, quit whining.
Fimbu had it all good enough!
I still think you guys rock! [/Ecidon love]
You are right of course, on both your comments.
Anyways...I think there is thematic reasons to do things, but also playability as well. I like the idea of Dol Guldur...and maybe making everything south or southeast of DG a region, would be fine...but leave most of Mirkwood alone....especially west of it to the Anduin, etc.
Saruman is removed from power with his staff broken, though Lothlorien is constantly under siege with sources pouring in from Dol Guldur, which would keep it in the war (As it was said in the book, war would come to them).
I don't see why a moderator shouldn't point out problems with ratings being misused, people used to be blocked for rating that way in the start.
Vermond...there is a difference between joining a discussion and pointing out problems with how people rate logs, etc :)
Anyways, that is exactly what I would like to see, but more limited somehow. The war in the book really takes place at Minas Tirith, and around Ithilien, Osgiliath, and Gondor. There of course is Helms Deep, but that was Saruman, not really Sauron, so forces invading from Harondor, and Mordor, technically weren't apart of that battle. So you could make Rohan a non-region as well.
I say make it worthwhile to wage war in the areas listed above. Make BP's there, and make killing NPC's there more profitable. Invading Ithilien and coming upon a group of Haradrim would be beneficial to a FR force. However, you risk attack from ER's as well, so it's dangerous.
Make it enticing to gold there, or fight there...and then I think you will keep the PvP stuff that peoeple like, but also limit it to a certain area of the game, so others are still free to learn without risk of death without fines, etc.
Mirkwood was a great place, full of quests, but no newbie or lowbie can really explore it now at all without risk of death by lowbie killing ER's.
Anyways...that's just my idea. I really, REALLY think there is a way to have ER's and FR's be able to wage war, but also limit to the area in the Return of the King where it really took place.
Make
'Thematically...there are those who warred, and those who stuck to themselves...and it would be nice if the War was down South on the Pellenor, Mordor, Ithilien, etc...'
How about allow only the regions that were thematically contested to be taken over? (ie: Gondor, Harondor, SG and maybe SOR and LOT?)
From help pk:
'*Addendum: With the addition of ERs, Arda is certainly a
more realistic place - there's a war going on, afterall! Playerkilling
is still limited in that there are several safe areas, and things
like scouts and warscape show warnings/etc.'
There are absolutely no safe areas you can live on (with live on, I exclude idling) leaving no place to survive for non-pkers when there is a hostile raid going on. (Yeah, there's FH and West Arda, but those are supposed to be for newbies, and servants have nowhere to go). The remaining regions would at least leave some area.
I forgot I wasn't supposed to be heard, being a moderator and all.. sorry Kelos!
By the way, to address the FR's are too lazy to take BP's...I think you are right, but it's not exactly laziness, it's more of being completely tired of the BP system.
It's to the point where you groan when you hear BP's start falling, because it's just become a hassle to get them back. It seemed fun at first, it makes fun battles and stuff, but for those that aren't into all that, it's boring now.
I am not entirely clear how battlefield will be implemented, but I wish we could see some way of making the whole BP system avoidable for those that don't wish to be a part of it. Or at least, narrow down the areas in which all the FR vs ER combat takes place, so those that wish to learn the game in peace, or be on their own, can do so.
Like Exley said...a level 6 stuck in SG...that sucks to me. I guess it's part of the game, but I'd rather like to see the ER vs FR be something you can join into IF YOU WISH, and avoid if you don't.
Same on the ER side...I'd love to see the ER lands and quests be developed so much that it's just another part of the mud you can go to without really having to get involved in the war.
Thematically...there are those who warred, and those who stuck to themselves...and it would be nice if the War was down South on the Pellenor, Mordor, Ithilien, etc...
Anyways, I've rambled on enough. I agree with Exley on a lot of what he says...I just hope these new changes can make things a bit better.
Qfm: Yeah, that slipped my mind, but I suppose I thought it was more like a person couldn't be invited while they were in combat, but could use a previous invite for a break. Guess I was wrong about that...which makes the DG/KoDA comparision just a little more similar, minus a few rooms for KoDA people.
And I agree with your second post completely. I got a tell from a level 6 newbie who was stuck in SG. Couldn't get back to MT from Linhir, where he originally was. I actually geared up and went to see if I could help him get passed, but sure enough S.Rammas blocks movement north, effectively trapping someone in SG (unless they swim, I suppose). He ended up logging out, and told me he'd just log back in when the region was retaken.
Yes Filch, you're right. I'm not expecting the new system to be perfect right off the bat. I'm sure it'll have things that need to be fixed (both bugs and human-error on the coders' part). Anyways, I guess what I'm trying to say is that telling the Ainu what to do with this new system is a bit trite at this point, considering that we have no idea what it's really going to be like. *shrugs*
One of the worst battlepoints currently, in my opinion, is the one at the South Rammas. It should block the other direction compared to what it is right now. Having to camo/sneak/swim/boat just to get back to MT when it's taken is beyond retarded.
For the record, Exley, guild invite was changed (without announcement) recently such that an invited player may not enter a hall while in combat.
Yeah.. but maybe those who make the decisions will hear and take that into consideration before the final implementation.
By the way, for the record, I completely agree that ER battlepoints are more strategically advantageous. We DO have an advantage when it comes to our own BPs. All of that is moot, though, considering the last time I heard, the new system is like 80-90% done. *shrugs*
<<KoDA from DA? Yeah right, there are 3 KoDA Players active and they are almost never on. And hell not inviting some evil aligned player to just chew on a BP.>>
Dun Ghash is pretty inactive right now, too. WTF does that matter, though? At least if KoDA was active, they COULD invite people into their GH.
<<Both Battlepoints are conquered by a wizard and a shielder. Without any difficulties. With two wizards its kid easy.>>
Come on man, don't even bring this up. Both sides have wizards, both sides use wizards. Don't make it sound like any particular BP is more advantageous for sFR wizards than non-serving wizards.
<<What if we decide to take over Dol Guldur. We have to kill the guards at the DG Gate, which are not easy at all. We have to kill the guards at the Battlepoint and then we are trapped. Some renegade evil can just close the gate and get us killed. Even if we are not trapped.>>
I've always seen DG and MT as two sides of the same coin. Both are extremely difficult to take, with many guards in between where you start and the actual BP (14 at at MT, 6-8? at DG). The only difference being the distinct possibility of you getting trapped. That's a feature very unique to DG. So, what? You want MT to trap evils now? That doesn't make much sense for a city that's desperately trying to repel invaders to do, but if you want everything in the game to be perfect mirror images of each other, it's whatever.
<<Yes, it is the only place where we can go west from the BP and not be attackable.>>
Can you not still knock on Thranduils gates? I'm not too familar with Erebor, but doesn't that BP have something very similar? I think the most unfair thing FRs have is being trapped in South Gondor if South Rammas is taken.
<<Certainly the whole map wouldnt be ER Controlled like it is for the past 1d, 12h of this reboot.>>
Don't blame us for ignoring petty, silly differences and working together as a team to accomplish something. Don't blame us for FRs being lazy about taking back their lands. I see 21 level 17+ FRs on right now. Supposing half of them aren't into BPs, that still leaves you with 10 people or so, two full parties! It's not our fault you guys mix like water and oil.
<<The sad thing about it is that Ainur dont give a shit.>>
Oh, I guess they're completely revamping the entire battlepoint system because they don't give a shit, right? There are doubters out there, always will be, but I say don't knock it before it even comes out.
I don't get pissed off at much in this game, but your whimsical fantasy that 'Ainu don't give a shit' is bullshit in an of itself. Do you have any idea what it's like to be in a position of leadership? You go around trying to please everyone, doing every little thing they want, and you're going to end up having no time to do the thing you were elected to do, which is to actually lead and make the big decisions that need to be made.. That's why they focus on the bigger stuff, and give us the option of petitions and idea reports. And if a petition that was heavily supported is shot down by the Ainu, so what? Like I said, they can't do everything to please everyone, and I promise you they have at least acceptable reasons for denying it. Besides, just because alot of people support something doesn't make it beneficial. To make a comparision, I'm sure everyone in America would support a petition granting each US citizen 1 million dollars. Does that make it a good thing to do? Fuck no. I'm no economist, but I do know that the value of the dollar would fall dramatically, while the prices of goods would inflate, leaving people much more worse off than they were before hand.
If the Ainu really didn't give a shit about this game, what do you think would be the FIRST thing they would do? Pull the goddamn plugs, and stop paying that $200 some-odd a month for this game to run, that's what. You're so dedicated to making this game better, but all I see you do is A) whine/bitch on comms B) run around PKing C) exploit loopholes and bugs, then usually get nuked for it.
What really amazes me is that most people that complain so much about the Ainu do it bitterly, failing to realize that honey draws more flies than vinegar. If you want to talk to some Ainu about changes that you feel should be made, talk to them civilly, instead of bashing them every chance you get. People are more apt to respond to you with respect and consideration if you give them the same benefit.
There's a significant difference between a battlepoint that is originally yours, and a battlepoint which originally belongs to the enemy. There is no single case of a battlepoint originally owned by ERs close to FR-safe-haven. The opposite is true. Cases like KoDA-DA, Durbatuluk-Kadar, Burzgul-Outpost are *irrelevant*, as they all refer to safe haven in the vicinity of one's originally owned BP.
As for DG and High Pass. High Pass doesn't block you from leaving. In fact, there's no other area in which you can be blocked from *leaving* upon conquering the BP.
Anglobin DA is the last point in SG, not the first. Its ok if you evils do that to Umbar or some of the furthest points on your map. Its NOT ok if you do it to Anduin or NRE
[new] Date: 21. Jun, 2006, 16:59:57 By: Feyd
BUUULSHIT NYX!!
'Do you even read what you write?
KoDA from DA? Yeah right, there are 3 KoDA Players active and they are almost never on. And hell not inviting some evil aligned player to just chew on a BP.
Lets look on the matter from the beginning. The first battlepoints to fall to evils are: Anduin Bridge, North Rammas echor.
What can we do to to prevent it? North rammas is 2 rooms from Osgiliath.
Anduin is ONE room from HAR area. Most of you do nw,shiv guard,se and they are safe. Nobody can attack them in there. '
Feyd, just a few minutes ago, I saw that an fr was trying to take back DA bp, so i camo'd to check it out. It was Andron. You know how he was taking it back? Leave gh, headbutt olog-hai, back to guildhall. That left me -no- chance at all to defend a battlepoint that I had taken. KoDA guildhall is what, 5 rooms from the bp?
Fimbu is hot.
To summarize the content of the discussion: The setup of BPs like Anduin Bridge, North Rammas Echor, and the Undeeps is a unique (and important) advantage that evils have. The evil legions near BPs are not unfair, because FRs have guilds near BPs. FRs having more wizards (and more players in general) is a unique advantage that FRs have.
'Even if we are not trapped. The closest place that is safe is like 20 or more rooms, where it is ROH. Or 20 rooms the other way to LOT. And to absolute safety its Rivendell (count therooms)'
'As for you whining that High pass is far away from DG, bullshit!!! Athin and other 3 people escaped from High Pass to DG on us 5 men with really cool weaps. Its not that far really. Yes, it is the only place where we can go west from the BP and not be attackable.'
So it is not far away when you are running from High Pass to DG but when it is the other way around it is far? Contrasting a bit with yourself?
I'm not going to bother arguing with the rest of your comment but as long as you have got four wizards (yeah we have serving wizards as well, but not as abundantly available as you) the battlepoint is taken in a single round, which is often the case when there is a takeover on ER territory.
BUUULSHIT NYX!!
Do you even read what you write?
KoDA from DA? Yeah right, there are 3 KoDA Players active and they are almost never on. And hell not inviting some evil aligned player to just chew on a BP.
Lets look on the matter from the beginning. The first battlepoints to fall to evils are: Anduin Bridge, North Rammas echor.
What can we do to to prevent it? North rammas is 2 rooms from Osgiliath.
Anduin is ONE room from HAR area. Most of you do nw,shiv guard,se and they are safe. Nobody can attack them in there.
Both Battlepoints are conquered by a wizard and a shielder. Without any difficulties. With two wizards its kid easy.
What can we, Free Races, do to take over a point. The two that are closest are South Ithilien or Kadar.
Kadar is always full of people and has a whole bunch of Guards and Archers at its north gate. We got to have a really huge party, which is not the case in the moment.
Ok, we cant take Kadar. South Ithilien left. How are we supposed to take it? Guards will block us south, north we have NO safe place for about half of the MAP. Most Free Races cant knock on osgiliath gates, so its not safe for them, all around is SOR, south is HAR. Basicly its a nice trap.
What if we decide to take over Dol Guldur. We have to kill the guards at the DG Gate, which are not easy at all. We have to kill the guards at the Battlepoint and then we are trapped. Some renegade evil can just close the gate and get us killed. Even if we are not trapped. The closest place that is safe is like 20 or more rooms, where it is ROH. Or 20 rooms the other way to LOT. And to absolute safety its Rivendell (count the rooms) or Lothlorien (count again).
As for you whining that High pass is far away from DG, bullshit!!! Athin and other 3 people escaped from High Pass to DG on us 5 men with really cool weaps. Its not that far really. Yes, it is the only place where we can go west from the BP and not be attackable.
How would you feel if 2 of the 3 battlepoints that are first to be taken to enter a region were Lothlorien and Edoras? Pretty much DG and Kadar are the same.
Certainly the whole map wouldnt be ER Controlled like it is for the past 1d, 12h of this reboot.
The sad thing about it is that Ainur dont give a shit.
You can't get to VC guildhall if Loth BP is red, btw. It blocks you.
No point asking, Taurion. It's just swaying too much to come back now.
It would also seem no more invites to guild halls if you are under attack. Is it really too much to have just one room in all of Lothlorien an ER can't kill in?
If that person joins your legion and you're a commander/warlord, you can allow them access to the armoury. Anyone can go to the garrison, it is a public room.
Can you?
Can you invite people into garrisons?
To answer Nyx's point -
So what if so many guilds have halls nearby? Most FR's aren't going to have invites into every single one of them's halls. I know for a fact that i'm not getting invites into Gala or VC's halls on this character just because I might get banged by ER's, no siree bob. It all comes down to the lack of unity, which really isn't a valid argument considering how long guilds have been in existence. And mmyes... about OWC and Moria... i'm sure there should be spots in ER lands which should be that way too? Like that bigass tree filled with dunedain? Hmm?
And lvl 19 FR quest, and the ridiculous notion that ERs should be able to get around failkill by protecting NPCs.
Yeah, what Trempk said. Plus OWC, Moria, and SOR. Monstrously one-sided setting.
MT: 20 rooms from safety. Edoras guards are a joke. CG guards are a joke. You play FR's and yet you still can't realize how much easier ER's have it battlepoint wise?
Kalmah, do they lock you inside? no, thought not.
MT, bash your way up 7 levels. Edoras, kill the gate guards. Caras, kill those guards.
DG is a deathtrap.
SI is bordered by a huge swath of SOR, you're nearly certain to pick up a patrol on your way in. The alternatives are: Osgiliath, which is only OK if you're truly demonic or lower (disguise, even maxed, doesn't cut it). Or you can swim, but that's mostly a 1-way thing (patrols, etc).
Kadar, you have to kill the guards or swim. See above for problems with swimming.
... And the Undeeps.
One of the problems I see is that FRs have practically no opportunity whatsoever to go on the offensive compared to ERs. Want to take DG, go in at your own risk and get locked, and then after you take it, just shrug it off when its gone 5 minutes later. South Ithilien, better disguise demonic or whatever it takes to get into osgiliath and have a room or something, cause its either that or you've got about 100 rooms to real safety. ERs can pretty much take the anduin and n.rammas any time they want to.
All moral BPs are ten rooms from safety .... for ERs!
OK, I'm exaggerating. But a handful of them are :P
High Pass is AT the bp. I didn't mean Citadel Guards, I meant the citadel itself where you can just knock and go right in and your attackers are hanging outside unless they drop their weapons. And even then it's a double break where you can drop anyone by knocking. And yeah, I forgot to mention N Rammas from GV, Loth from VC and blah blah blah. Almost all of the moral battlepoints are less than 10 rooms away from a shelter, and the Dun Ghash/SOR is equivalent to High Pass. I had never even heard anyone mention that before, but people will always find something to bitch about.
None of 'em are **AT** the BP.
And Citadel Guards no longer exists Nyx, you're wrong, conform.
'Its really hard to solo nowadays, especially FR -> ER. They have shelter 10 rooms from any Battlepoint. Not even specifying the Dun Ghash legion armoury AT the Dol Guldur BP.'
Waah. Exactly how far is safety for FRs from High Pass battlepoint? Oh that's right. It's right next room! Amruin from Edoras? Galadhrim from Loth? KoDA from DA? Citadel from MT? BkD from Erebor? Oh dear god. Less than 10 rooms!
Feyd is waiting for the next log. I died same way again.
It's Feyd's fault he died, noone can disagre with that.
Sad is that people don't play. And the meaning I put in 'play' is definitely not the way Hellflame and 90% or more of the active mudders play.
It was a pleasure to read it Badin, that's why it was a great log imo. Fun to see newer people surprise the old 'veterans'.
Funny thing is that pbs is better than the mithril longsword.
Great log? *rolls every mother and their sister does this shit, Hellflame probably copied from the log page.
Bah. I hate Hellflame:P
That was a great log, well done Hellflame.
Harrow, what's the problem? It was obvious that Hellflame alone is too much for Feyd.
It's really not worth stabbing with a 1h weapon these days.
Damnit Hellflame, why did you post this? Don't you realize that there will be a petition against ERs with keys?!
Not a bad lock. But like Arawn said, 'don't let yourself egt a big head.'
And Harrow, whats the problem? You so amazed to see someone try other guy solo? And not hunt off when the backstab doesnt kill him?
Damn you all new players, just banging and hunting off few rooms after the backstab.
Its really hard to solo nowadays, especially FR -> ER. They have shelter 10 rooms from any Battlepoint. Not even specifying the Dun Ghash legion armoury AT the Dol Guldur BP.
It was well done.
And Jabba, dont quote me without permission. Guild idlers and looters like yourself dont deserve to speak.
Nicely done
Blah, good job Hellflame. Just don't let yourself get a big head:P
To quote Feyd from a previous log:
'HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA'
Feyd...wtf?:P Drunk irl?:P