Twomanned with Brubaker
Not doing anything to stop the said gangbanging ER's is the same as turning a blind eye to it; you may not approve of it but you put forth 0 effort it getting them to stop.
On the flip side, it happens to lowbie ER's much much less, mostly because they can't even get into NH until level 10.
I don't turn a blind eye to shit, Pallasch, so long as I know about it.
Anyways, that goes both ways. I've seen plenty of young orcs and trolls slaughtered by massive parties of FRs.
Lastly, even so, that's still not the same as, for example, an ER creating an FR alt specifically to kill lowbies/newbies. Look how many times the riots have been nuked for that shit. :P
And yet you turn a blind eye to the ER's that 5 man level 8 FR's, right?
The biggest problems I have with Riots is that they almost always kill/attempt only newbies and lowbies. There may be exceptions, but not many.
Galad, i agree with you, Frs have a much more expanded range of themes and diversities. Probably because they existed way before evils. In that regard though, why can't there be a guild helping Ers ?
It has been a long time I haven't been playing my Er, but a year ago, I remember things were not so equally drabbed and boring, but maybe things have changed since then, and as you are, I'm convinced that inner fights would do Ers much good.
In fact, I think an Er legion is able to do what Durmanhoth are doing. Nothing in the code prevent them from doing so. There have ever been some embryos of rebellions, but they have been smothered, not by valinor mind you, but by a player evil consensus dictated by the fact that no evils should revolt.
In that sense, the exact same thing is happening to durms since most of the fr guilds have waged war against them when they started supporting evils, so I don't see where lies the difference, except the fact that FRs are way less coordinated, but are also, as you said, way less boring.
Paraiko, I found your comment sadly ironic. Are you telling us that you firmly disapprove the playing background coded by valinor which forces us to fight in a black and white world deprived of gray, whereas at the same time you condemn the attitudes which endeavour to make this background evolve and render things less simple and obvious, just because they are not following this background you despise ?
How truly sad and self-contradictory.
I think it's a bit easy to always blame Valinor. I think that what this game has become is also and mainly the responsibility of its player database. Yes, the code has forced us into a WoW-like game, but were we supposed to forcefully follow this trend ? As soon as evils were released, people have started thinking this world as divided into two parts with 'their' world and 'ours', 'their' advantages and 'our' flaws, whining about which side would overcome the other. Gods, this remind me so much of 1984, it makes me shiver :P
Anyway, why follow somethingg you dislike at the first place, isn't it instead the responsibility of the players to make the game evolve the _way_ they intend it so and whatever the game restrictions might be, and this through the tools of guild themes, roleplays, friendships and general behaviors ?
I think, it's not a crime that I know of than to not follow those restrictions if we do not like them, is it?
I remember a Paraiko which was not so bitter yet and was also fighting for a game he'd believe in by creating a 'free' Melkor's worshipers clan, which I found so totally cool back then. Why give it up?
Now hopefully with dev 58, things will evolve because we whined probably loud enough to make valinor change their views.
If you don't want Ers to be a block, don't start considering them as such, because they are composed by the exact same typists after all.
Now I'll shut up, because cats ain't supposed to rant that much :P
Mourngrym, you should keep in mind that Brubaker's career as a server came to an end partly because of something he did to a Burzgul. I don't think he's said sorry..so why is this ok?
I am a thug:(
Don't be a dumbass. I wasn't saying that it wasn't evil. What I was saying was that they shouldn't serve just because they kill elves.
It's funny to see the riot ERs dragged into this discussion at all, because their biggest crime is simply killing other ERs.
FRs kill each other all the time.
Yeah Trempk, cause if a dwarf does that it's not so evil and the elves won't mind. Bullshit.
I can't understand all the complaining against Riot ERs. Serve allows the 'evil' side of the game the whole gamut of FR professions, tilting the balance the evil way, anyway. Moreover, the bounty system can practically ensure that so-called rioters cannot do much about anything.
Riot ERs, in my opinion, are a much needed color in the terribly boring and drab ER playerbase. Is there any difference whatsoever between a guy in Durbatuluk, Burzgul and the third legion, except maybe some may be more newbish, and some more experienced? With exception of a very few, do ERs add any special flavour to their characters? Though it might sound silly for some, FR guilds have their own characteristics which make them so enjoyable. Take Galadhrim and VC with their 'I shall protect NPCs', take FRA with their 'I am a thug' or take Mirdain with their non-interference in general attitudes, etc. Each guild has its own immutable identity (at least the old ones). All ER legions, ER players, ER guilds (sFRs are just ERs with nicer professions). They are all same. Equally boring, equally drab. As Paraiko said, the entire ER-sFR mega-gang is one giant guild.
I know most have the algorithm: pelt, gold, takeover, kill in a loop. In fact there should be a way for ERs that can shake free of the idiotic serve, and be really free. It is funny that a few 'FRs' can use the 'serve' command and be rid of the FR lawsys, while few 'ERs' can't do the same and be rid of ER lawsys. If you talk about balance in everything else, why this imbalance? Durmanhoth would have been justified doing what they are doing, if it were possible for a ER legion to as easily do exactly the mirror. Hence ....
Even if a BKD kills elves, it doesn't mean that they're in league with sauron. Its a completely different thing. Now, if they partied with an ER to kill in loth...
I am with you now Mirnac.
But from my pov, killing a 'King' would give more reward, reputation and name sake than killing any servant. Especialy when there is gold and EQ payments involved! Which is of course what the durms in a large part work for. Greed.
The fact of the matter is, Serve is in the game specifically to MAKE things black and white, and also to make the MUD easier on the ainur. As long as the ainur don't want to do the difficult but right thing to do, i.e. removing Serve, non-Servers shouldn't be allowed to party with ERs. Valinor has divided everything into Warring Against/Impartial To/Serving Sauron. Since the latter of the 3 essentially crushes individuality by putting a tag up and restrictions and forces you into a mega-guild in three parts, those Impartial To folks can't pick and choose among the ERs as has been suggested in this thread.
Serve is doing what Valinor wants it to, which is to not make things complicated for them. Removing a thematic abomination like Serve would essentially fuck up the obscenely simplified guild system in place now, so I doubt it's going to happen. So, things depicted in this log really shouldn't be allowed.
I have no idea whether or not Durms do anything in Mordor, but I know that they don't have any sort of free reign in Harad. I do though enjoy the fact that they don't mess with us in any way shape or form, and there are other ERs willing to keep the Durms afloat. I think is this more evil than just having them serve. They have access to West Arda, failkill isn't a problem for them (not that it will be soon enough anyway) and plenty of other amusing qualities. Obviously if they start using their connections to certain ERs to abuse the frail alliance they have, I'm sure they will soon regret it.
Mirnac, I tend to think you can kill people fighting in the same side as yours, even more when they are high ranked which means that you have more chance to hold grudges against their behavior, than a simple soldier.
That's a sophism alright, but roleplay lives by sophism!
Anyway, put this fucking cat out of misery, he talks too much and then I can't sleep.
Delgaur i meant king as GM. Some might think it is bad rp but i have this idea that most players are 'higher' rank then most npc's. Sure there are some npc's that are kings and stuff that are higher ranked than most players. But if i kill a orc in mordor or kill a evil in mordor, i would think that the player is higher ranked in the army of sauron. same way for free races.
@Nietzsche (and all other people that can't use MSN at work): try out www.ebuddy.com. It's a javascript emulation of MSN (I think). Use your regular MSN account through ebuddy, though you can only chat (no voice or data sharing is possible). I hope it works for you!
On the side note: If anyone needs a HTML->Ansi Converter, talk to me on the MUD or mail me at lateralus@vip.hr.
Cheers!
Meow!
For some reason, I find Myrddin's comment ironic.
Anyhow, I am not going to sit and argue with you, but if Rasvaak is one of the few examples of ERs partying with Durmanhoth, that is because of Nasira, and even if she did change her mind, that's really up to her.
I didn't see any of you saying there's no grey, or it is bullshit that FRs can party with ERs when it was riots doing practically the same thing so don't go around calling anyone a hypocrite.
Yes, it makes a difference that Durmanhoth is a guild while there were no major riot legions, but the principal of the matter is the same.
So well, instead of getting worked over a stupid argument that won't matter and calling each other asswipes, try to give it a shot and argue in a civilized manner.
'So it is better to kill the 'king' of the elven/human forces when you get the chance then kill his 'servants' to help your side in the war against the evil commanders?'
Dont really make sence? But we dont have a side per-say. We kill for the gold. That in itself makes us evil. Same way dwarfs lust for gold.
And what bloody king? lol - You kill the elven servents all the time :)
i don't care either way but jaron, when did a fr gm post that those riot ers should be treated like regular ers? i mean its not like they were a hypocrit in their actions. unlike some dumb twat with a big mouth :P
I wish you guys had voiced your opinions half as loudly when pretty much every FR guild collaborated and geared riots and Bruce golded in Linhir freely.
The point you all seem to be missing is that Nasira doesn't have the strength to stick by her convictions. She's a toothless dog with a loud bark.
So it is better to kill the 'king' of the elven/human forces when you get the chance then kill his 'servants' to help your side in the war against the evil commanders?
You guys really dont know all your facts. All I hear are a bunch of assumtions :)
Your right about Nasira though. There are a good few Ers that wont help durms. But a good few that will when it suits them. I tend to only work with them when it benifits me. But thats no less Evil than BKD, who raid Lothlorien on a regular basis. Not Even the Ers manage that. I recon VC like me more than BKD, since I am High Moral.
BKD should just serve :)
If Durmanhoth is going to play like a serving guild, they should just serve. A few would show up on those new posters in our garrisons though. Some ERs don't get that they're aiding Mordor killers.
I still don't think it's an abuse of the system (since the counterpart is lawsys). Serve is by all mean retarded anyway, and a label should not (and is not in the facts) the guarantee of an according behavior. I cannot talk for durms anymore, but I think the alliance they made is a blow to the usual Er vs FR daily basis, which is something I support 100%. Now you're right, it's mostly an unilateral alliance (although quite not exactly). But now, in terms of theme, I deem it all natural that the minions of Sauron would have bands of people infiltrated in fr lands. So again, I don't see where it is a big deal.
However it's all natural that those who pledge to fight Sauron at all cost, end up fighting durms accordingly.
We're just ranting for nothing here. Serve will soon be gone, and so will battlepoints. Just can't wait!
you're a dumbass :P
I'd quite happily work with an evil, or a particular group of evils. So long as I do not have a reason not to. But when it's a blanket thing of ALL evils, such as what Durmanhoth is attempting, then they should just serve.
For example. If Valacirca made a deal with the Hogwarts legion that they would share information and provide safe passage in whatever lands, then that is fine. Valacirca does not gain the benefits of all evils watching out for them and Hogwarts legion risks the others ERs going to war with them and having their legion annihilated for it.
If however, Valacirca attempted to make a deal with all ERs then they're abusing the system and should be made to serve.
Ah damn, too bad. You should quit your job and get a new one where you can mud from work. *coughs at Hrafn*.
Anyhow, I say, let's make this world grayer and screw the misconceptions of groups prejudices!
Even if they obviously can't be overcome as a whole, to create new hatred and new inimities is also a way to minimize their respective influences. In that sense, the alliance between durms and evils is a fact which contributes to this purpose, as well as the attitude of Fra which aims indifferently at those who are called frees or those who are called evils.
I cannot connect to msn! Im at work and i can't even open java or telnet! Logs page is all I have when there's nothing to do..well the only thing MUD related.
Well, friends and enemies are a relative concept, what is a friend to one person could be an enemy to another. It is in this relativism that you find the grey areas which make the game so interesting. However from the point of view of the individual or small group 'the enemy' is a very black and white thing.
Connect on msn, I want to explain things to you more in details, most people here just wouldn't understand and I'm too drunk to explain things clearly. To be fair, I've been also a durm with another alt and to me this Er FR alliance, is something important, I've always aimed for. Just because I didn't want to see this mud turns like WoW.
To be fair Sicarius, whatever this alt may or may not have done, it never caused any harm to anyone.
There's a big difference between that and what Durms are doing. Durms are doing it to get kills and gather equipment safely.
I hope Nasira does have the courage of her convictions and demands that Durms either serve, or get treated like every other free race.
Well Sicarius, I didn't end up that 'scorned' in the first place, and yeah I'm a helpless romantic enbittered bastard, yay. Whatever. =)
Nietzsche, I got your point. BUT nothing is just so black and white, and shouldn't in the first place. What is just so wrong in this game nowadays is that there are only two sides. And I think we all agree here, we sure don't want of that. To me, there is no such thing as 'another side'. But yeah it's probably because I'm beyond 'good and evil'. Something you ought to be familiar with!
Slaiw, people can do whatever the hell they want. Help the 'other side' or not. They just shouldn't expect to not get killed until they are no longer able to enjoy playing the character they did they with if they do.
If you consort with the enemy you ARE the enemy.
You're just being romantic about it because you tried it with one of your alts and ended up scorned.
My point being that it's cool some Frs and some ERs associate together. Should have happened since the beginning, and yeah Pallasch, that's just so like me to aim for anything which looks like chaos :P
Damn I'm drunk.
In Platon's world, most certainly Nietzsche. Thank god(s), we don't live in Platon's world, rather in yours ;)
What if the enemies of your enemies are also your enemies? Does that mean everyone becomes friends?
I don't see the point in people complainging about ERs partying with FRs also. That's all natural and should have happened way before nowadays. In one way or another. The reason this mud has gone downhill is because it has been cut into two disctinctive clans. I don't understand why you guys would blame Ers to associate with some crooked Frs, whereas you'd blame them to not associate with them in the first place and condemn the quite uptight 'serve or die' credo.
Yeah, it figures someone like you would say that.
The enemies of my enemies are my friends. Simple principle.
Durms need all the help they can get
The riot ERs aren't a member of my guild. Therein lies the difference, you stupid asswipe.
Nasira made a post on the conquests board a few weeks ago saying that the Durmanhoth cannot have it both ways: not serving, yet getting special treatment from the ERs.
Here we have a member of her own legion conspiring with them.
Seems she's also trying to have her cake and eat it too.
Can't take the same medicine that FR's dish out to ER's with riots, Sicarius?
Where's Nasira with her 'durms should be treated as any other FR' rhetoric now?
If she had the courage of her convictions she'd boot Rasvaak.
And that's why durms are scum.
Bullshit that you can party with FR's.