Athin is buff
Altar, Ochyrocera wasn't in this log at all, hence nothing specifically in this log concerns him.
Secondly, I think he made it relatively clear that he felt Khaedes didn't deserve to kill him because he didn't trigger the break that O successfully used twice (not that I necessarily agree with doing this, but you seem to have missed the point he's making)
And I seem to recall Khaedes quitting mid-combat when being arrested about a week ago.
Connection troubles? My ass.
And if you're a good player, you don't fear death in the game. Especially not since the penalty was changed.
I've never quit when someone was pking me. That would be so embarrassing. I would probably quit the game forever if that happened to me. Especially quitting on a solo, ick.
In fact, I'll even elaborate on that. You quit when you think that the fight is not going 'fairly', and as such, you do not think they 'deserve' to kill you.
Specifically in this log, Khaedes caught you off guard, and as you had no chance of killing him, you figured that it was 'unfair', and that he did not 'deserve' it.
You quitting to avoid death is not an isolated incident. Fearing death is fine relatively common amongst the players here. It is just ironic that you are so quick to chastiste others for having the same phobia as you.
Yes, pitiful Trempk. Can't you see! I suck, I'm absolutely horrible, just like you! Bartoss, isolated incidents don't define people, welcome to common sense 101.
I agree with Tlaloc, except for the bit about ep drain making Mordor not fun. Mordor should be hard to get into, with hard quests, with great rewards.
Mordor was not wasted code when it took a few minutes and some EP to get in. I loved it, and I know many others who did the same.
EP itself is 'unthematic'.
As Castamir pointed out, there should be fun for the players.
On the other hand I think that biased areas are stifling to fun. Like, if I know that 10ERs are out there after me, I would never lay my feet on this road. And how am I gonna get any fun if the ERs refuse to go to a moral-aligned territory? (Which they would if they were smart).
Now if the road took EP from both parties, I might go and use it (like the dead marshes).
Besides, one-sided EP draining is unthematic, since it was the presence of the Eye that gave advantage to the ERs, not Mordor itself. Like scouting reports (the orcs didnt get them on the cell phone though;) - I know its a playability issue, jk:P)
A well prepared ranger (like Aragorn) should be able to outrun an orc on any road any day of the week.
On the other hand EP draining areas have been great fun (like Dale and the Dead Marshes). But they should be EP draining for both sides.
If getting into Mordor takes EP and time, I simply wont go there. It used to be so - you guys remember it. There was no Mordor fun. Mordor was empty - wasted code.
Align-based areas are simply unthematic and illogical. Imagine something that drains EP because you...are bad????
If you were a good player, you wouldn't have to quit on people. You weren't even in a lockup and you quit. Its just pitiful.
Balanced doesn't mean identical. As for you, Ochyrocera, I guess everyone's seen the log and nothing you say is gonna change the fact that you're a quitter. Duh.
Heh Bartoss, if you trigger the huntbreak, I can't quit. And I don't care about dying, I cared about letting those retards succeed after failing repeatedly.
Right, sorry. I'm tired. <3 you
Kalmah: have you read what I wrote? It is exactly crap like the Morgul Pass EP drain or Loth bridge what I would want gone. Same for other breaks which are inequal -- a prepared player (disguised, with keys, etc) should have the same set of places he can enter. Both in Mordor and in Loth/MT/etc.
'something where both sides can have a roughly equal fight.' Yes, one side not being able to move whatsoever due to lack of EP is so equal :P ERs have dozens of other places they can break at
Says the dude who quits to avoid it.
And I definitely agree with Tlaloc and Castamir here - There needs to be a bigger rush and a better focus/emphasis on at least that facet of playerkilling, without coding protection for the people who can't handle the simple fact that death is a part of life.
Except me biatch.
Yes, Baklen is right. If you enter Mordor, and get caught on a trick like this, the only person you can blame is yourself. Athin and Khaedes deserve full props for this awesome action.
What I'm talking about is how to make Mordor pvp fun again for the most part as opposed to just rare gems like this -- something where both sides can have a roughly equal fight.
Btw Rekthorne , destroy? I think not there is a log of me soloing Alyath I think last year, with him trying the same trick. I guess it's all their fault to that everyone sucks:(
On a side note, Morgul has been this way for a long ass time. I guess noobs can only bitch about something when it is turned against them. Get a fucking clue.
One room per round -- that's for all means a road around ten times longer. That's exactly something to block that 'fast fast aliases' you're talking about. In other words, it makes the PK arena more distant from all safe places -- more dangerous, that is. For the game to be fun for the more-skilled folks, the thrill must be bigger. Better rewards, bigger risks. Having the 'arena' have a trivial 'bail out' switch is no fun. That's why I would want that long Morgul Pass and no knocking on Morannon on the inside, together with equivalent changes to moral towns.
Like all things in mordor there are ways to stop getting dragged down there. Triggers and alignment both work, as for the ep drain, well it's a long road so if you decrease it your just getting dragged further down with the same effect. Hunting ERs in mordor isn't advisable unless you have a major amount of firepower and hit them at the right place, the same would go for trying to kill a moral in mt/edo/pelargir etc.
Blocking NPCs shouldn't be placed in places like Edoras. As far as CU is concerned, who really cares?:)
But one room per round is plain stupid. I wonder if the guys who voted yes on that have 20 PKs all together:P
When it comes to PK it's aliases that matter - fast fast aliases. Short commands that run longer and well prepared sequences of movements. If you stop to think for a moment, you lose 20HP, if you stop to think for some more time the enemy gets a chance to get away (or you have to be a Khaedes). In real PK the target is dead before they realize they are being attacked. If you don't attack with that thought you better stay in your GH or domain and code flowers and happy elves.
I don't think that guys who have less than 50 PKs (on the active side I mean:) should even think about expressing an idea about PKing.
Just for the record, the version which was approved by balance at the moment (yours truly) was making the stairs slow you down so you travel only 1 room per round, for everyone -- but without any EP loss. This was done to avoid adding an easy exit just next to the center of Mordor, to not ruin the pkill game. Of course, at the time you couldn't knock on Morannon from inside -- something that dumped all my calculations down the drain.
_ANY_ guard/gate/etc which lets in people from one side but blocks appropiately disguised folks from the other side totally breaks any PK fun in a huge radius. This makes current Edoras gate, Lothlorien, MT, Morannon, Morgul gate, etc nightmares where fun is concerned.
Ainur just keep twisting everything I report into their own sadistic ideas :( the main point of my report was that morgul gate was already a more difficult path that front door, so didn't need ep drain.
Actually I'd like to get a bell to ring when I get in there and it should produce sounds IRL so I can annoy you into moving your fat lazy asses out of your GHs:P
Oh well, Bartoss, I usually try to get as many scout reports as I can. Why would I waste EP to waste scout reports? Now if it teleported evils into a locked room with me (instead of giving them scout reports) if I took this way, I might bother learning Shelob's. Otherwise it's a useless piece of crap.
Ive done that lots Trempk.. cept I wasn't high :(
Seriously, someone should take away Myrddin's ability to submit bit reports.
There is also an inherant difficulty in getting the password and going through the gates. That is getting really high, not thinking, and instead knocking on the them twice.
Running Shelob's lair is a skill which in acquiring usually results in the running-player's death at least once. If it were a cake walk as you suggest, all the mordor newbies would be running lair instead of using password (after all, who doesn't want to be scouts free?). Yet they don't. There is inherant difficulty in running Shelob's lair. The EP drain is the counteract the fact that running morgul gate apparently has no such inherant difficulty.
Shelob's lair is a piece of cake to walk through, and without the EP loss on the stairway you can get into Mordor in a minute or less without causing scout reports.
Nildnab - When you say the CU stairs, do you mean the stairs leading to Shelob's lair? Because if you do... shelob's lair is the primary hazard in that entrance; the ep drain is the primary hazard on the morgul road.
And Myrddin! Another one of your idea/bug reports turns up as the source of the players getting fucked!
Yeah, I pay lots in fines for killing in mordor every day, its great.
I don't see Athin partying with any mordor killers.
SoU always protected Mordor, now their GM parties with a Mordor mass murderer and leader of riots....
You have lost my respect Athin.
Seems really now there's no one else left that is into old RP. This mud is a LAN Quake.
Khaedes wrote:
> Lets have orcs that hug you and give tours in mordor too!!!
I laughed badly at that
I think its balanced since they took out the hp/ep drain from CU stairs, how about removing the too scared to move now from there also.
In response to Ochy and a few others, I originally idea reported the road saying that it shouldn't sap ep anymore since the password is a far easier entrance...Unfortunately I included the words 'at least for ERs' somewhere along the lines so this is what we ended up with.
The hit-job on Rambler vs our 4-man was good, I must agree, but giving something to ERs that allows them to more or less DESTROY anybody that hunts is ridiculous. That type of stuff makes it a non-option to even attempt ERs that have a clue inside Mordor.
Where can I sign up for this Uruk led tour of Mordor?
Is it scenic or brief? Cause I hate brief.
Bitch more.
Honestly, the road is retarded either way you look at it. Athin, its not 'Saurons magic that takes away my ep on the road' its the gas and fumes from the river. Have any of you ever been in a gas chamber in RL? Doubt it, ive been in one three different times with CS gas and no matter what, everytime I come out the same way, dripping snot, gagging and gasping for air. You don't get 'used to it' regardless. Good talk, cya out there.
Yeah, MT and Loth is almost no threat to ERs whatsoever. I've always thought, and still do think, that ERs don't have an advantage in Mordor that isn't deserved, IF they actually go to protect it (which is not the case right now). But the Morgul Pass is just retarded. Even if thematically the pass shouldn't drain for evils (I have no clue), this is seriously unbalanced and we all know playability comes before theme at times.
Easier than saying a password fooling everyone your one of saurons minions?
I disagree
And how dangerous is it to walk into Lothlorien or MT as an ER or serving FR? I would think the danger would at least be comparable, but its no where near, not dangerous at all actually.
So you guys are saying that without this road and its ep loss, that mordor wouldn't be dangerous anymore?
I still don't see why some of the guards in a city thats currently under seige wouldn't be able to see through disguise, yet the osgiliath and kadar guards, who aren't under seige, can.
Lets have orcs that hug you and give tours in mordor too!!!
Winnetou wrote: --This is not unbalanced. ERS/Servants are aligned to Sauron, therefore his magic aids them, and does not work against them. They don't lose hp on Morgul roads, nor on BD stairs. They enter freely CU and Mordor. They walk past guards. It's how it should be. FRs have Lothlorien bridge, for that matter.--
By Mahal, the great and dangerous loth bridge! What a comparison!
Lets make MT gateguards so that they must be dominated/Loth flets take ep drain/Linhir turrets take ep drain and whatnotmore. Where is our magic aid?
Come on!
It's what Tireless said: EP drain is fine, but then for everyone.
Awesome log I've seen in ages, certainly the top logs type. Awesome hunting at 70 HP, brilliant strategy playing with their party.
You're so right, Astachar. Good thing serving comes with a complimentary gas mask, eh?
Osg trainer trains morals. But there's no sense in that.
Winnetou: Loth bridge was nerfed - twice - so that it was an inconvenience and not a deathtrap. It virtually never takes EP any more, and only takes hp going one way, and only takes 8hp so to kill someone from 120hp by running them on bridge would require you to cross it and come back 16 times, which is 32 rooms. Morgul pass drains ep at it looks like 30 or so ep per room, and you have to double that number (because you take the ep to get in, then you have to use the same amount of ep to get out, as opposed to loth bridge, where you can leave from either side without crossing it again), so effectively it's a 60/room ep drain. You're comparing it to an 8hp drain. The two simply are not comparable. It's not that they're the same, it's that they're not even in the same ballpark. It's like comparing shiny black longsword to The Black Sword.
To the best of my knowlege, the warrior trainer to whom you referred sees through disguise, so morals can't use him. For that matter, every NPC and their mom in Osgiliath and Kadar see through disguise. I don't even know why we have the skill.
Ochy, I don't think anyone is bitching about the ep drain; we're complaining about sFRs and ERs not getting EP drain.
Nildnab, in this log we see Khaedes running around on this road all over the place and never loses a single point of EP.
People like Nildnab that dismiss all complaints as bitching when we should just get over it anger me. First, because FRs are not the only ones who do it - Just because Kelos was effective with HTHS, ERs griped up a shitstorm and it got immediately nerfed, leaving other weapons with just as good stabs around. Meanwhile, FRs raised legitimate concerns (Read:Hamstring) and had to wait months and months for a change.
If something is broken, it needs to be fixed. This part of Mordor was not broken before ERs, and is presently broken. Valinor obviously doesn't listen to idea reports; their track record is that they don't give attention to any issue until a sufficiently large noise has been made about it.
sFR/ER's do lose ep using that road if used under a certain ep i believe and might as well make mordor easier and remove half the guards cause you all bitch.
This road has been in the game a long long time. Instead of whining because you got served on it, try and use it to your advantage, or avoid it in the first place.
HOWEVER, I was surprised -> I was under the impression this road drained EP from all players who passed it... This doesn't seem to be the case, and I agree that it is unbalanced.
The road must drain EP from everyone, not just sFRs. The reason it drained EP in the first place is because it was a semi-substitute for running lair.
Good point, Polk. But that's weird that he'd train morals, I didn't know that.
not as easy as ERs can
FRs can easily access the trainer in Osgiliath.
Trying to avoid adding fuel to the current whinefest but; Yeah lothlorien bridge. Can you say woop.. de.. doo?
This is not unbalanced. ERS/Servants are aligned to Sauron, therefore his magic aids them, and does not work against them. They don't lose hp on Morgul roads, nor on BD stairs. They enter freely CU and Mordor. They walk past guards. It's how it should be. FRs have Lothlorien bridge, for that matter.
An example of unbalanced thing would be the Osgiliath warlord trainer, who trains all AVE STATS (except charisma) and all COMMONS (aim, attack, dodge, defense) up to 100. FRs not only don't have one trainer, who trains this all, but they don't have a trainer that trains dodge up to 100 and attack up to 100 (except for assassins). This is unbalance.
Mordor is dangerous enough with ER's running around protecting it. I can understand why they should be able to run into all the camps and whatnot, but not recieving the EP drain as well is... just bad balance. Dangerous /= imbalanced. I've known about the drain and I bitched about it then, even made an idea report to no avail.
It's not the first time a log with it being used was posted here either.
Please, 'hunting Khaedes wasn't the best Idea', 'Khaedes owns mordor' you guys are pathetic. Your too busy giving him head to realize he doesn't walk on water. Hes a good player but hes not a god.
I think arguing about that is quite stupid to start with. I think the road is perfect the way it is. Evil folk are made to travel on it, they live in the fucking place. :P
ER/FR balance? It's Mordor for Christ's sake, not Michel Delving. :P
Besides, anyone who ever bothered to explore that part of Mordor would know that getting stuck there is a pain in the arse, and should just... avoid it!
Hunting Khaedes wasn't exactly the best idea. ;)
The EP drain has been there since the beginning, but that doesn't change the fact that from an honest point of view, it is abit odd that not everyone experiences the EP drain. SFRs (dunedains) have it not while FRs (also dunedains) do have it.
It's not a new change, it has been like this since it was put in. (The morgul gate). You might want to check your facts before you start wading in on the retarded side waste.
i didnt know about this ep degrade on morgul pass, i am willing to bet its a new change. Retarded? I wouldnt say this if this was made public to people who activly visit one of the hottest spots in Arda. Learning by practice is good, but come on, what kind of practice is this to being dragged into such a screwed up place? I would admit this is a cool change, but, if this was to stand, they would have to enforce the ep drain from every character, otherwise, its just plain and simple retarded.
Nice. =)
Mmm'kay, talk to Valinor about it then. Make a petition, idea report or just start a discussion. Don't say it's piss-poor coing though;P Just point out why you think it should be changed. There's a possibility they might do something.
Well, it appears that the environmental hazards are ONLY hazardous to the non-public-servants-of-Sauron. Because, you know, noxious chemicals coming out of the river, they don't affect those Uruk-hai. Oh, wait...
Don't try and defend it. That is indefensibly piss-poor coding. Since ERs' release, the only thing that has changed in Mordor has been the assassin gloves and Valinor degrading the code.
(3 - 6 for 2-manning a 5-man, 1 for abusing an area so poorly coded that it could be categorized as a bug [abusing poorly coded items seems to be a theme with you])
Yeah, I mean, making Mordor dangerous?!?! WTF?!?!
It just shows how clueless some coders were when it came to ER/FR balance.
1)Why would Athin party with someone who MP's and kills in Mordor all the time is beyond me.
2)The Morgul Road is fucking retarded. 15 ep per room? Who the fuck was balance when this was implemented? Jesus fucking christ get a clue.
3)Symric hasn't played actively for a year, you can't expect him to know which retarded imbalances to avoid.
Nah, you can't blame someone who hasn't been active since ERs were released. Since that time there has been a hell of a lot of changes, so many that you can't really just get a complete update from someone.
For someone who owns the place, he does a pretty pathetic job of defending it (or is that just when it's his guildmates' alts killing there, and the EQ's going to get passed to him afterwards?)
It's still pretty assed that evils can run that place without ep loss. But a good read. :)
With all the traps and lockups there are in Mordor, I'm surprised there is someone stupid enough to actually hunt Khaedes who owns the place. Don't blame an external factor like the ainur, blame yourself and your ignorance.
Yes I must say, what a great coding job the ainurs did with this trick. When he led me in morgal pass I didn't see the fact that I could lose 130 ep in 4 rooms, and Er's unaffected. Pretty awesome.