Die!
<3 Dorf
Exhalev, I'm jealous of your command of the English language and/or spellchecking abilities. I very nearly wrote a snarky little '*enrollment' post, and then realized it actually IS 'enrolment.' Good form, sir.
Just for the recordbooks, Altar is jealous of my enrolment in the University of Waterloo, and has mocked me in his legendinfo. I'm simply curious as to which community college he attended with Slugz while they were sharing their characters on EoTW. Please fill me in!
Well, there was that. Whatever, I got a gold star out of the deal. :p
Well, wasn't he a wizard? :P
I participated for the free attempts on Sauron. Seventeen fireballs barely nicked the bugger. :p
I was twisting your nipple :P
What I meant was during these RP events, people participate just for free kills, not because of your 'syntax' or whatever.
'Polk, you tell me you haven't spent time even considering EQ combinations, golding locations, etc, when you're incapable of playerkilling without full EQ and a tactics potion'
There is not a single correct statement in that sentence. Hell, like half of the PKs I've done had me having only a weapon.
Roleplay revolving around combat is a product of the nature of the mud. Sure, there are newly emerging tradeskills, but the principle dynamic of the mud is syntax and combat. It's incredibly hard to have a roleplay event involving multiple typists revolving around syntax, so they generally revolve around combat. I've heard that Meglivornth is going to be having an internal roleplay event which is based around auctioning items and fulfilling orders - Though this is still revolving around combat, because that's what items are good for, and how you get them.
It's kind of like going to a wine tasting, then commenting that all the alcohol is wine and not any other variety. Kind of a product of the setting.
Exley, the reason people don't like new guilds forming is that the new ones have a marked tendency to suck.
The only RP I see are the RP battles and even then it's kill, kill kill... but then again I'm inactive.
Heh, I like the vintage car analogy.
Except that I think there's some disagreement whether we should be able to drive 15 mph down the country road or have to park in bad neighbourhoods where juvenile delinquents will slash your tires and key your paint job.
Okay, is that taking it too far? :p
Polk, you tell me you haven't spent time even considering EQ combinations, golding locations, etc, when you're incapable of playerkilling without full EQ and a tactics potion... Don't be silly!
I feel Exley expressed some valid points... well done! And I have to agree with the statement concerning spending hours golding/levelling, RPing in contrast to not spending 2 hours aliasing or learning how to effectively huntbreak -- its ridiculous... its like buying/re-building a vintage char from scratch, and then not getting insurance.
Newbies should have access to upgraded styles of clans, which would give them something to strive for, maintain RP, and engender the possibility of growth into respectable guilds. Actual guild status should be a high achievement, as mentioned by Tireless.
'[new] Date: 18. May, 2007, 20:18:59 By: Duncan
Ah, Mirnac, so you decided to leave the Quickblades alone?:)'
Yeah im so terrible active it's crazy right? I killed atleast 20 QB's.
I never said i supported a war, or that i didn't, it dosnt really matter if i do or not, If my King want to start a war, ill follow him into this. That is the way BkD work, we might not agree all the time, but we always help our brothers/sisters and our King.
I havnt really played this game since TNT, and before that i started again after 1year absent about 1 month before evil release, and after evil release all iv done is run CU to stock armoury and have some fun, but other then that been idle read board, talked to people, and kept myself abit updated.
Exley, guilds are a high achievement in this game. The same logic that suggests that newbies should be able to MAKE their OWN GUILD should be able to be applied in other categories and say that newbies should be able to... say... gain entrance to Mordor. Acquire and maintain level 22. Get uniques like Aiglos, Whip, and Shadowsword.
If people like Duncan who think that newbies should be able to create a guild easily manage to somehow decieve the majority of the population of the mud into agreeing with him, I'll start campaigning that QI sites should be legal and linked on the main site, and that Valinor should update the QI sites with all the new quests as soon as they're coded. Because honestly, if we're not going to make ANYTHING a high achievement, why should having a broad base of quest knowlege be any different?
Honestly, I think that quest creation should be restricted to someone with 50d char aging or who can prove that they in the past posessed a character of such aging (Alkath does not have 50d aging, but we know that he did in the past), and clan to guild should cost 7 million gold.
Okay, time for me to chime in.
First of all, I agree somewhat with Duncan on the original issue. I realize, Tevildo, that you never mentioned 500k as a new figure for guild creation. It doesn't really matter whether you made that figure up or not, though. Either you disagree with the figure, or you don't...and it doesn't seem to me from your comments that you're terribly unhappy with it. Yes, your petition argued for increasing the cost by 50%, or whatever other number the Ainu decided upon. The fact of the matter is, whether you wanted 500k or not, THEY chose 500k based on your petition. Cause and effect, man. That fact that it was an unintentional effect is irrelevant. To me, this seems akin to driving a little too fast during a storm, plowing down some little old lady, then trying to claim you shouldn't be held completely responsible since you didn't mean for it to happen. *shrugs*
Secondly, I'll NEVER accept the excuse of 'Well, the majority of petitioniners voted yes for it'. In 2004, a majority of voters elected Bush. In late 2001, a majority of congressmen approved of the PATRIOT ACT. Mob mentality back during the civil rights movement made it 'right' to lynch blacks, or at least beat the shit out of them. See where I'm going with this? Just because a majority approves doesn't make it good, or right. It seems to me that this was the main reason for you creating the petition, Tevildo, which is why I bring all of this up.
I've always been simultaneously amused and horrified at the way (generally speaking) newbies are treated and spoken to by people on this game. It seems like every time a newbie or a lowbie asks a question on the comm, someone with a moderate degree of popularity pokes fun of him, then several others join in. More mob mentality. I realize not everyone does this, and I'm in no way trying to point to specific people.
And yet, here is a petition that seems aimed at hindering newbies, and don't try to deny otherwise. Any increase in cost for creating a new guild, whether 50% or 500%, is less of a burden to experienced players who want to form a new guild than to newer players. The other three stipulations - quality, uniqueness, and plausibility - are spot-on, and I commend you for them.
Your point about a backlash that new guilds may not deserve is a good one, although irrelevant. You don't seriously think that people who don't like new guilds being formed will say 'Hey, they have to come up with far more gold now, let's leave them alone!' If anything, this gives those people more time to attack clan-members in their attempt to disband the clan. If I get killed once or twice a reboot while trying to level up my character, keep my EQ in good shape, gold for the clan accounts...shit, no way man. What new character is going to want to put up with that?
I guess I just don't personally understand what most of you guys have against new guilds. Is it that you want to be exclusive on the game? You don't feel that other people who are working hard should enjoy the fruits of their labor? I wouldn't mind a serious answer to this question.
And Altar to Christ so that we have the whole thing at one place!
Hahaha he is! Get him namechange to Jesus!
Duncan is actually acting like if he's the Jesus Christ of newbies or something. Sorta like Altar's behaviour on the comm recently.
C'mon people,
if i hadn't read the log and been online at the time that dev was implemented, only from reading the comments i would have thought that the guy had committed at least a genocide against 3/4 of the Arda population.
It's just a PK,one of the hundreds the game has seen and surely not the one done with the least reason and provocation. Yes,Dorf -it seems unreasoned to you, which is fine. But everyone has the right to have a cause,to like or dislike others, even if they think they are cool(and even when they are right to think so). That's what life is,that's what the game too is. It gives the chance to people to dislike other people, to actively show their dislike, and also gives the 'disliked' people means to counter react.
So stop making it look like Duncan is Satan himself and Tevildo a martyr :P It is getting boring and those two may actually start believing it!
Ah, Mirnac, so you decided to leave the Quickblades alone?:)
You are welcome, Dorf:)
As for people talking crap, scroll down a few logs - why do you think Kubar and Perrota died?:)
Noone's forcing my hand:)
Pathetic Duncan, this is just a bad fucking excuse to start a war with a guild you know you will 'win' and not loose to fucking much, So instead of making up alot of bullshit about you not liking spreekillers and you want to be around nice people, start talking the fucking truth, you havnt changed, your just like winnetou, makes up loads of crap to start killing stuff, i have commented more against you, then Tevildo and dorf have, i don't see you declearing war against bkd. So shut the fuck up, if you wanna kill Tevildo, fine do so, but keep your made up explanations, makes you look like a fucking plant.
Fucking plant.
Hahaha, Dorf just ripped Duncan a new asshole.
Plenty of people 'talk crap,' Duncan. Look below your comment to see the dozens of people who are disagreeing with you. Note that Tevildo and I are the only Mirdain? If you're going to have a little vendetta against people who 'talk crap' or are for increasing guild cost, looks like you'll have a LOT of guilds to declare war on.
Don't pretend anyone's forcing your hand. What you're doing is tantamount to throwing a tantrum, and arbitrary killing of my people - especially without even a thin justification - will not be tolerated.
No, Tevildo, the very idea of increasing the cost, even by 1% is enough. I know you didn't come up with the figure. And stfu, I've killed you only once (still). I attack Tuareg like twice a boot and he ain't complaining.
As if you had never talked crap before the petitions. This was just the last straw. You are going to die a lot. Still wondering if I should declare war on your little guild too. Although I like some people in it:(
So people are still operating on the assumption that 500K was a figure I came up with? For cryin' out loud :) Read the bloody thing again. Note the differences between what was petitioned and what was adopted. Seems Dorf's comment about literacy was an insightful one.
Just borow a golding scrip from your friend/brother(whatever he is) Winnetou and do as he does it constantly. Or you think that also is lame and wannabe powerplayer style? Because then you have just described Winnetou as everything you hate about T2T, kinda hypocritic to spend time/party with him if he and his way to play is what destroys this game.
I mean, you want to force people to learn how to spend countless hours of their RL time golding but you don't wanna spend 2 hours aliasing breaks?
Exactly, and golding is busy work. Tell me you have fun golding:P
Well, frankly, 'investing time' writing and testing golding aliases, obtaining all sorts of equipment, running quests and killing tons of NPCs, etcetera, etcetera... is time spent not doing what you actually enjoy (unless that's your thing). I know I don't enjoy it, which is why I rarely bother unless I really need gold. This is a game. People are supposed to enjoy themselves, not occupy themselves with busy-work.
I would say killing evil smith NPCs then writing pages of thematic stories is much more work than learning a survival playstyle. (Although I agree the writing can be much more fun in its immediacy, it doesn't have the potential to preserve your hard work, so to speak)
Learning how to survive is rather enjoyable, especially the elation that ensues when it pays off... and don't take things to the extreme Tevildo. Carry one flask/bota, maintain RM (you're a wizard, no worries there, and furthermore, finds are even easier for you although from from a prerequisite for character preservation), play constantly eaglesighted/attuned, and know how to huntbreak. You don't even need aliases if you're capable of typing without looking at the keyboard, trust me :D
*egrin*
So your gonna do to Tevildo, what you say is destroying this game and makes wannabe powerplayers? Don't get me wrong Duncan, but you are a fucking moron.
The Courthouse(e)
HP:230 EP:202 ==ROH== plead
#1: You have been accused of murdering Tevildo.
How do you plead? [(g)uilty, (n)ot guilty, or (c)ancel] : n
The judge doesn't believe you and increases your fine.
The judge issues a fine for your crime.
You have 10 minutes to pay your fine of 2200 gold.
I think I could afford some more Tevildoes!
Well, frankly, 'investing time' writing and testing break aliases, obtaining all sorts of healing, running finds on your enemies before leaving each hidey-hole, etcetera, etcetera... is time spent not doing what you actually enjoy (unless that's your thing). I know I don't enjoy it, which is why I rarely bother unless someone's actively after me. This is a game. People are supposed to enjoy themselves, not occupy themselves with busy-work.
Death is a part of life. If you invest time in a character, and want to protect it, why not invest time learning how to protect it. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to survive 99% of the time, especially now with global lawsystem and the subsequent end to prolific random killing. I find it funny that someone who finds such value in their character and the effort and time invested in creating their identity and levelling them up, has a distinct lack of knowledge concerning their preservation. That's the disconnection.
PK imbalance in regards to breaking and evade? I thought most of the issues revolve around people who don't want to PK being involuntarily involved in it and told to 'suck it up and get leeter.'
Oh, and I don't have a clue how ERs work, for the record. :p
Because limitations on evils in almost any sense do not directly restrict them from making gold in the same fashion that limitations on FRs would restrict them. Both limitations would dissolve if the system were to change... I don't think you know how ERs work.
And I'm not sure you -do- know how to break. If you did, it would follow as a logical consequence that you wouldn't need to defend people who whine about pk imbalance with respect to breaking, evade, etc, because you'd understand that there was never a problem in the first place.
I smell cheese... it smells good.
Blah, Exhalev... so I got caught with my pants down. Happens to everyone. I was lazy to not have breaks aliased. Now, if you think I don't KNOW breaks, and don't learn from mistakes, you're as big a fool as... well, look below and take your pick.
While I'm here: How would radically changing the requirements placed on evil race groups NOT change anything? That's a ludicrous assertion.
Donairs are where its at.
You missed 1 essential point Dorf.
Urban loves pies = Yes!
Clowns.
So, no resolution here? Just complaining, ranting, and spamming?
Duncan, don't kill people for bad reasoning. It's worse than no reasoning.
RP = yes. Golding = yes. Killing newbies = no. Randomly PKing RPers in the name of protecting RPers = no.
Read and vote on petitions. You have a right to complain if you don't, but no one will take your whining seriously.
Did I miss anything?
This is just one pathetic comments section now :(
Chicken pie that is
I love pies.
my guess is tevildoes since there isn't a vowel before the o
What's the plural of Tevildo - Tevildos or Tevildoes?
What?
Perhaps one or two more Tevildos! Or Tevildoes?
Quit farming posts
Alright time to play soccer, enough commenting for one day. That's right. Soccer you Europeans, not Football. Football involves real tackling, not slide tackling!
Blah that last comment was rather rude, forgive me Tevildo!
I'm curious as to why Tevildo has not yet petitioned for the inn in Edoras to become functional to give him a fighting chance of living next time he gets attempted in an area with only 8 huntbreaks in the immediate vicinity.
On a side note I'd like to point out that Duncan stating that I pwn negates any negative comment ever produced on this page against me or any of my typist's characters. Even if they were almost 40% valid.
Excuse me I didn't count Adunazon in my previous survey of the comment-providing individuals. It appears over 30 different characters commented. Although any number over 20 something is still accurate if the true number is over 30. Semantics!
How many more times will Tevildo be slain for his trespass against the will of Duncan and perhaps 33.4% of the MUD population!
Well it looks like the change was implemented after all.
It appears over 29 different characters commented on this log, how controversial!
I must say, I am rather impressed by the distinct lack of flaming in this comment section.
Don't talk about Warcraft, that's off topic, will get the thread closed!
Fuinor, you should start playing again, give in!
How does the removal of powerpoints create a golding imbalance, please enlighten me Tevildo.
It's still the same. Someone gets feeded, someone whines, someone flames, 2 leaves and gets banned and then it's 'gg'.
It's so much fun, we've got to do it again, and again, and again, and again...
Err.. But yeah, I really agree to what Dorf is saying. Both RP and golding are important.. In some cases the latter supports the former and vice versa..
Hows DotA anyways? I haven't played it for a month, im sure theres a lot of changes..
Comment no. 140! (Pretend its cool!)
Yeah, Fuinor, where have you been?:P
Hi Jaron. Hi Zon. Been a while, eh?
Hi Fuinor!
Even if no imbalance existed, prop 1339 and the removal of powerpoints would surely create one.
DotA, Defense of the Ancients. It's a custom-made map for Warcraft III, and it's played 24/7 on Battle.net.
Most people refer to DotA Allstars, when they talk about DotA. But the original DotA were made for Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos. While Allstars is played on Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne.
www.google.com, for more information.
What's DotA?
rusty at DotA now so its no fun :(
DotA!
There is no patch. Give in to your urges.
Well, I wouldn't actually know since I don't really play much anymore (if at all). All this talk is making me want to start again though. Might be able to find a patch to suppress this urge. Must. Find. Patch.
That's somewhat true, yeah. However, Quickblades still do complete shit as a guild :P
'What's in a name?'
I just read Quickblades' charter and I have to say that it really isn't even half as bad as I was expecting it to be. The thing that bugs me about this new guild, though, is its name. Call me an anal retentive purist, but it just doesn't seem to scream 'Tolkien' enough. I don't know if this would make any difference to the rest of you, but what if it was called something like, 'Guardians of Gabilgathol' (Yes, I have an alliteration fetish. Bite me. On second thought, make that 'Maul me.'), for example? It certainly would to me. Just a thought.
- F
Hi.
xox
'Guilds are about RP, it's not personal. What do you gain by golding?'
Read my last post. RP is great. Gold insures commitment. Gold also buys more rooms, more NPCs, more food, more amenities.
'See sotpotsomething - they know how to gold, guilds like them can pass any 'hard' requirements and what? We're gonna get RP? Oh come on. I prefer the Quickblades.'
Even though SotP is satirical, if nothing else they do maintain the veneer of RP that many guilds don't bother with. Even using ridiculous pirate-speak is a step, however silly. The Quickblades? I haven't seen much from their side of things one way or the other, to be fair. I think Deathclaw would like to make an effort, but the whole 'completely capitulating to BKD and pretending they didn't' thing didn't buy him much credibility.
'So the Quickblades may become a good guild, PoT too.'
Sure, they could. But why not make an effort to improve what exists than create dozens of possibilities and wait to see which ones die first?
'If your guild can't meet the activity requirements it's because it's full of morons who know how to play but behave like jerks and noone wants to join it.'
In some cases, sure. Sometimes, guilds are simply smaller because of more restrictive or secretive themes. The Thieves' Guild, for example, is necessarily small - and I don't presume to know how active. But you don't see them recruiting everywhere.
'Don't leech the enthusiasm out of the new players.'
When I first started participating in the 'global scene,' I was a part of a trial guild called the Smiths of Nogrod. In today's current non-restrictive environment, it would probably have thrived. Back then, it was eventually rejected. I was very disappointed, of course - but I knew that there were other, more established guilds out there with solid themes and solid people which I could gravitate to. I eventually did. And I have no real urge to go back and recreate SoN, regardless of how 'novel' and 'new' it was at the time.
'And don't tell me 'They are gonna learn the game when they join an older, more experienced guild.' Come on, what are they gonna learn?'
Is that a real question? I wouldn't have a clue how to play most of this game if it wasn't for my interaction with SoN, BKD, and GiM, and by extension the rest of the socially-connected MUD.
'Thumbs up for RP and cool emotes! Down with golding!'
Thumbs up, sure. But golding's still necessary.
Guilds are about RP, it's not personal. What do you gain by golding? Wasted RL time? Become more geek? Come on. Better log on here, have a good time with friends and pwn 10 uglies with style!
See sotpotsomething - they know how to gold, guilds like them can pass any 'hard' requirements and what? We're gonna get RP? Oh come on. I prefer the Quickblades.
Look at the Galadhrim - they used to be worse than the Quickblades and now they are one of the coolest guilds, I think even better than VC. Yes, their armoury isn't like BKD's armoury but are we gonna judge a guild on it's armoury? Then I'd be the best guild in Arda cause my strongboxes simply rock.
Look at the Cymbrogi - what a name! Now they are Nar i Anor (awesome name) and they are becoming better. Give them time, they will become even better. Like you were born r0x0rs!
So the Quickblades may become a good guild, PoT too. And the Quickblades don't spreekill newbs, they don't extort other guilds, they don't steal from people? Let them be. If your guild can't meet the activity requirements it's because it's full of morons who know how to play but behave like jerks and noone wants to join it. Don't leech the enthusiasm out of the new players.
And don't tell me 'They are gonna learn the game when they join an older, more experienced guild.' Come on, what are they gonna learn? How to wear a dark chainmail shirt? Half of you aren't even aware how much it sucks. Or pants, hauberk and shield! Meh.
So, let the newbs be! Thumbs up for RP and cool emotes! Down with golding!
Thanks for good words from Dunc and Tire, and Tireless, if one is given certain parameters to work with, [you especially (being well known for your statisical endeavours)], one can stack any numbers in any fashion to suit their need. I know you are very well versed in both sides of golding, but I'm not sure how you're denying the fact there is no major imbalance... I suppose I'll re-read your comments.
A little sentiment I'd like to pass on in general is: Nothing will ever be perfectly balanced anyway, the hope that things are varied and in essence fair to a satisfying extent is all that anyone could ask for. Otherwise, as previously mentioned, the old smack stick of standardization comes a-knockin' and the last credible sources of imagination, inspiration, and creativity (facets of the MUD that are very rare and yet extremely important to the experienced end of the player base spectrum) get destroyed/paved over.
Ideas and iniative like Tevildo's admirable forays against the status quo/sub-standard ideas have incited change, and can be respected for the fact that they addressed issues that weren't of gigantic bearing on the MUD. I think what we have all learned over the years is to do one thing when new changes are thrown our way --> _Deal with them_
Anything that is remotely similar to whining or complaining about 'injustices' in a system that is by definition never to be perfect is simply ridiculous, and a waste of energy.
Perhaps the people who invest so much time/thought into complaining about the grander scheme of things (which has finally shifted toward acceptable) should focus their intents on smaller things, a la Tevildo.
Pablo is obviously just fooling around because he likes to try and turn my crank.
No crank for you!
'Down with activity and gold requirements!'
They're irritating to an extent, but without them there would be no OBJECTIVE way to monitor guild activity, contribution, whatever.
I think that having thematic 'requirements' would be pretty neat, but I think it would be something Valinor wouldn't implement - it's too subjective: no way are, say, Aina Amarth's requirements (whacking Galadriel X times?) going to compare to a guild like Ranhoth's (consuming 1000 mushrooms and publishing the Tater?) or Quickblades (...killing ugly orcs near Belegost?).
I'd like to be an optimist, but you should know full well that if there really weren't requirements like gold and activity in place, there would be 50+ guilds in Arda just for the huntbreak, editable rooms, and armoury. I don't think that removing the gold/activity requirements will ENCOURAGE more RP. That's something that has to be done at the PERSONAL level; it can't be OBJECTIVELY imposed from the institutional (i.e. guild) level.
No, there is no golding imbalance. And I could see the most commented coming, but didn't mention it cause now its so lame that everyone is talking about it :P
Exhalev pwns.
Umm, talking about guilds and themes - a cool idea - instead of requiring activity, guilds could get theme quests to do. Like VC should kill Khamul 3 times a month or something like that! Or they could bring letters from Arwen to Aragorn. And the Amruin would steal them on behalf of Eowyn:P
The purpose of a guild is to RP, not to gold or use tick timers!
Down with activity and gold requirements!
hah, but thats just my two cents
Of course, some people can be forgiven for lack of alt-knowledge.
I hate keeping track of you all sometimes. ;)
Otherwise... I've never killed anyone for fun. Closest I've come to that is fireballing the hell out of Sauron at the last RP battle. Earned me a gold star, but I didn't get his ear or anything. :p
And Pablo, you can make a case against Exhalev being a great player, or even a very good player. It's a subjective matter. But there simply is no case to be made that he is not a knowlegable player, or that he is a sub-par player. There is not a single category of MUD knowlege in which he is not AT LEAST average, and in most categories he is significantly above average.
Frankly, that you would say such a thing highlights your disinterest in the reality of the situation. Your comments are obviously based not on reality, but on your enmity towards Exhalev. If such a standard is acceptable...
'There is no ER golding imbalance. Whoever states otherwise doesn't know how things stack up.'
There is definitely an ER golding imbalance. If my previous explanations were insufficient to explain the situation, give me any set of criteria by which I could establish an imbalance if it existed and I will demonstrate how the current system meets said criteria.
'Quick question: who the hell -doesn't- kill people for fun?'
I don't. I have fun while I PK, but I do it with a purpose.
'Thirdly -> Does anyone else agree with Tevildo and me when it comes to the lack of theme being a huge detrimental factor on the guild system?'
Yes.
who the fuck is exhalev and why does he always talk like he knows what is going on. I swear i'd respect ravathir more when it comes to knowledge of t2t than him, at least he's a little less retarded :p
Woo, most commented!
You're all Newbies! (just because winnetou didn't say it on this thread yet!)
There is no ER golding imbalance. Whoever states otherwise doesn't know how things stack up.
Quick question: who the hell -doesn't- kill people for fun?
Thirdly -> Does anyone else agree with Tevildo and me when it comes to the lack of theme being a huge detrimental factor on the guild system?
Most commented, eh? I could go for that.
Okay, how is 'uniqueness, plausibility, and quality' MY playing style? That sounds like a compliment. Or a come-on! Dang. I am the sex.
I give no respect to either of them
Amearn is a woman. Bevler too.
Heh, Duncan, you're talking about everyone driving new players away by apparently forcing so many rules upon them. You're driving them away by participating in random pk.
i am very pretty.
50 more and we're on most commented!
You bastards *flame flame flame* - flame back!:P
Nice to hear from you, Fuinor :)
<gives Tevildo a pat on the back> I feel your frustration.
If you were really concerned about extortion, I think you'd probably have been attempting Azer & Co. for a while, what with the QB business (and just to qualify, because I feel I always have to do this, I understood what was happening on an OOC level but it wasn't really okay on an IC one, and it was definitely extortion, either way).
I do kill people for fun like Amearn. I just said it. And I voted on this petition. Get a life, Jaron:)
In other words be as much of a bastard as you want, just make sure your an honest bastard :)
Hell, if you were man enough to admit that you are killing people just for fun like Amearn, you would at least get some respect. But you need a reason to convince yourself otherwise eh?
Ah, so he is enforcing his playing style on others by making a petition that the majority approves, but you are not doing the exactly same thing by declaring a personal war on his guild for a petition that you ignored until it started affecting your precious clan?
If he is that ugly, evil multinational that tries to pass laws with lobbying, you are no different than the idiots that start vandalizing streets because their party lost the elections... in your case, which you forgot to vote in.
Simply ugly, eh? Grow the hell up.
Hmm, I haven't practiced serious contact sports for ... a couple of months:P But Tevildo, I just think that when someone has a solid guild and tries to enforce their playing style on other players, that's ugly extortion. That's like a multinational company bribing the parliament to vote extremely high registration fees for new companies with similar activity to make sure there will be no competition. Or to make sure people will go to work in their factories as employees instead of starting their own business.
It's simply ugly.
And besides, where did you hear I need a reason to kill you??? I've killed people for a lot less. For example spamming the auction.;)
'Proving yourselves ultimately dedicated with a SOLID thematic reasoning behind your existence' is the primary purpose behind the whole matter. Yet, most of the conversation has been mere quibbling about a few hundred K, a figure that came out of Valinor and not my petition. Seriously, who have I wronged here? Can anyone give me a straight answer? Methinks someone (or several someones) have an excess of aggression that's being misplaced. Perhaps counseling would help, or taking up a contact sport. Or, I don't know, growing the hell up.
If you can't afford it or don't have the time/dedication to put into forming a guild, then just stay a clan. Its that simple.
Mmm, jedi sword..
I agree with Exhalev, good idea on the trials. And Tireless, that's exactly what I was talking about. Raping Linhir is NO RP - you can have it on any MUD. Although you'd do it with a jedi sword on a Start Wars MUD.
Tevildo knows about golding imbalances and ER golding because I've demonstrated them to him. And yeah, I wasn't an ER for very long, but honestly, how long do you have to spend in Linhir to understand its golding potential? I went from never having killed in Linhir to rocking it as well as anyone in less than a week. It'd be rather pretentious to say that I cannot understand ER golding because I only did it for 6 months.
The first fucking thing I know about golding is that gold can be exchanged for goods and service! Useful stuff! And, uh, yeah. Jared ADMITS that he has no idea what he's talking about :)
What is the first fucking thing you know about golding Tevildo, let alone ER golding, and even further, golding imbalances. And there you go telling Jared he doesn't know what _he_'s talking about? This has nothing to do with the thread, but really, you get ahead of yourself too often in realms of the MUD you don't understand.
I will not deny your many petitions have been innovated and many have been quite useful - thank you for your iniative, its well done.
Personally I think there should be a set number of guilds, like there were for warlord legions, and if the playerbase grows to handle more guilds, a lot of activity problems, just for example, would be eliminated. As it stands guilds are diluted and have no meaning, and one cannot blame Duncan for his opinion of the current guilds.
Raising the cost for a new guild diminishes the impact that the newer players with imagination and spirit might have on the game by forming new guilds... but it also further dilutes the system - furthermore, without the long-trial by fire of being an old clan and proving yourselves ultimately dedicated with a SOLID thematic reasoning behind your existance, the end product will be a bunch of newbies with no sense of what a real guild is supposed to be who find themselves too proud, too soon, with a guildhall...
This in turn perpetuates the cycle of ruining guilds. The key is to harness the imagination and drive of newer players, by allowing them to develop over long periods of time and growth to temper and fit their ideas and passion (with thematic basis to varying, but moderated extents) and THEN letting them become a =trial= guild. This trial period should be redundant though, because imo, guilds shouldn't be GIVEN a shot unless they already HAVE proven themselves.
The issue isn't gold or theme, its the lack of seriousness and dedication reinforced by the current system.
No one person will ever stop dungs rebuilding, Waste has done wonders with that guild in the last few weeks and if you think attempting a few members will drive it into inactivity your crazy.
Amusing you'd say that about our guild. We've already rebuilt it quite well from complete shit, and fit in just fine in Arda.
Good posts, Altar and Mourngrym. That's what I was thinking.
And you of all people, Kalmah, shouldn't complain about idiotic clans going guilds because Udungul is the perfect cliche of an idiotic guild. Earlier today I promised Waste to leave Udungul alone for some time so it can be rebuilt. If you wanna play an idiotic guild - play it, I don't mind. Why would you mind people playing their guilds? Let them have fun.
3 or 4 of my 5 alts are guilded, though if I were restricted on how many guilded alts I could have, that would probably change.. and I'd welcome it.
However, I still get about 2d aging per character in time spent outside the guildhall, be it questing, roleplaying, whatever. It's possible to split your time between multipleguilds and pay attention to all of them, though far from preferable.
Mourngrym, did you ever think that the 5 alts in guilds are because of the stupid activity requirements? If there weren't a lot of people who did this, some of the guilds would have already been disbanded.
Agreed on the point about five alts, but maybe I can say that because I can't be bothered to keep more than the one.
And I think a farmer's guild would be neat, if it was expanded upon. We do have harvesting and milling and so forth as tradeskills now. :)
What's a reasonable theme? The standards that were established:
-- uniqueness: the charter does not overly resemble an existing guild, nor does it entirely lack purpose
-- plausibility: it makes sense and could reasonably have existed within the setting
-- quality: it does not abound in grammatical or spelling errors, make OOC references, or contain objectionable content.
Seems reasonable to me. A guild of farmers or Linhir shopkeepers such as Mourngrym proposed would probably pass, assuming they had a purpose (such as to share resources or information, or set prices for goods). Would anyone play it? I don't know. If they would, they're welcome to it. The Crossdressing Knights of the Southwestern Style Barbecue Hut, on the other hand, would most likely NOT pass.
Missed it earlier, but... Jared talking about 'idiotic posts' and not knowing what petition was even being discussed? Amusing :)
I believe both theme and members make up a guild. A unique guild with a good theme but no one willing to invest time and effort into it does not deserve to exist. But it should still have a unique and good theme in the first place like all guilds should.
And, no guilds RP? I see plenty of guilds still trying to RP, however difficult it may be in the current state of the MUD. The point is to have LESS guilds, so members of guilds won't be divided all over the place and dedicate time to a single guild, or maybe two.
You're all whining about guild fees and shit. The fuck if I care about them. Obviously we'd all like rent to be removed. However, clans that want to become guilds need to put SOME effort into having that happen. If these new theme QCs are VERY strict, then I'd have no problem if the cost for a guildhall went back to 100k. The 500k was to further ensure clans are dedicated in going guild, and to prevent idiot clans to go guild because of weak theme requirements and an easy armoury/idling place to obtain. With a good theme QC I guess its not necessary though. It probably would've taken care of Quickblades and PoT and shit had it been put in earlier.
I kinda like what Altar says up there, I think it's funny that there even exists a petition about how guilds should be, because you can definitely figure out how entire races and classes of people (most professions which don't really exist anymore or are vaguely alluded to) and instead of giving players a chance to branch out and form their own interpretations of the books and the things that happened and maybe create they like (cause who gives a shit what you think of another guild) and have some fun with it.
And Dorf quoted Aduial a while back about how the problem is that players are idling their 5 other alts to keep activities up and this spreads players too thin with too many guilds... Don't you think it's not a problem of the guilds but people with FIVE other alts? Maybe it's the retards who for whatever reason try to play 5 different guys then complain they can't play 5 different guys and so we should change guild requirements. Also, how original is their guild is they fact check through every single line of Tolkien works and try to fit in their guilds within a tight little niche of the book? Cause from what I hear, not every human was a brilliant knight who apparently only lived in Gondor and fought for everything they had... They were just Humans who lived in Linhir and owned a freakin shop or farmed land. But I'm sure you would scoff at a farmer's guild too, just because they're humans and they farm. They have to be better!
And seriously? What the hell is a 'reasonable theme?' I'm pretty sure most if not all of the guilds now were accepted as having a reasonable theme. Or do you just mean reasonable to you?
Also, I love guilds who say they should stick around just because they have history, they have the priveledge to be born first in real life, and create a guild first on a game, and have 'history'. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the older players took upon themselves to RP with whomever and kept it up. When you idle all day even the most 'badass' 'historic' guild can't RP anymore. And then of course it doesn't help things when you isolate guilds that actually try to hold on to any sense of RP and laugh at them.
And Kalmah, you said yourself your guild was unique, but then go on to say that most guilds should be removed to keep the unique ones.. but, in your example, isn't it exactly the problem of the people IN the guilds, not the guilds themselves? Because I figure the ainur already realise that shit and that's why you're still probably not going to see a revamp in the guild system, because it DOES make unique guilds, like you said, it's the players in them that make them shit. So I think it was Duncan who was right saying that it's most of the players who a L-A-M-E.
Players who are new to this game shouldn't create guilds.
Provided a guild has a plausible theme, a guild should exist if there are players willing to play in it and keep the minimum activity and rent going. 500k? This is nuts. It effectively bars newer players from creating their own groups, and instead forces them to conform to the standards set by players with their own guilds, and more importantly, hundreds of agedays to vote petitions.
Actually, Tireless, good points:) Except the standartization of eq:P
And Tevildo, I looked at them, there was a 'T' on them..*shrug*
'Guilds should be based on people's willingness to RP, not on people's willingness to rape companies, BD, MT and Linhir.'
Well, just wait until ERs and their packmon golding get shunted into the guild system :/ Everyone loves to bring up golding imbalances but nobody seems willing to address them, so meh. As for 'willingness to RP' and 'Tolkien knowledge'... that was sort of the whole point, yes?
By the by, you ought to have looked at those gloves, Duncan.
By Duncan's argument, there should be no gold requirement to go guild at all. No gold requirement for any guild features, no activity requirements. Let anyone they want form a guild with any number of members - I like being by myself in a guildhall, so give me a guildhall unto myself and a 10 unit armoury as my innbox so I can hoard vials and stuff. I'll racechange to dunlending and make my krs no dunlendings so I can do gala vials again. Because that's how I like to play.
Give me a gold mine in my hall, because I'm a dunlending that likes to mine. So that way I can bot the mine in my hall and pay my fines and buy my equipment with that.
You know what? Let's remove fines, gold cost for training, and exp requirements for levels. Some people like being level 20, and if they're killed, they lose exp and skills and stats which they (god forbid) must MAKE GOLD to retrain. We shouldn't force them into our playing style.
IN FACT, let's just remove gold from the game, and standardize all eq. Some people don't like it when they have a sailors cutlass and an assassin comes at them with blackie. So let's have one autoloading weapon that is exactly the same as everyone else's.
I could keep going, but I've already flogged the dead horse into submission.
Actually, this is why this is an IMAGINARY world... cause we do things we cant do IRL, like a nice swordfight :)
Hahaha...you were supposed to say that being socio-political doesn't work well for me ANY time of the day. :)
I know, Exley:P Being socio-political I could say that modern society is based on slave labour and you are right:P
Yeah, I was just drawing loopy comparisons to real life...being socio-politcal this early doesn't work well for me. :P
Guilds should be based on people's willingness to RP, not on people's willingness to rape companies, BD, MT and Linhir.
Yes, Jared...if only that's the way the world really worked...where power derived from effort and work rather than bank accounts. :P
Guilds should exist based on ACTIVITY not on GOLD. I dont give a shit how much gold a person can do. I just hate to see guilds that exist because of 1-2 people playing.
Then, Arawn, they should make current guilds pay that too in order to stay in the game. :)
Aha! So that's your evil plan, Duncan. Geeks who have no life...
You want more people to join guilds so less people will have lives.
You murderer!
They should up the cost to one million real life dollars.
That's extortion. A guild does fucking nothing anyway. For the 1000th time - MOST OF THE PLAYERS HERE ARE L - A - M - E. In my eyes none of the existing guilds is any better than the Quickblades. A guild in my eyes is a bunch of geeks who have no life, no skills and no Tolkien knowledge. Although the founding themes of some of the guilds may be cool, they all suck at RP. So the Quickblades deserve no less to be a guild.
Why force them to play another style? Your style? I don't like it either. But they are cool persons, why kill their enthusiasm?
Erm. They don't deserve to form a new guild. Go join one of the existing ones that ought to have your friends in them anyways. At least, it'll have their alts :P
They don't deserve it if they want to do that, no. They can form their own clan and make use of the mail system, tellcomm, or some shit. We all had to work our asses off to build on our guilds and gone through a fuck of a lot of changes, no reason why they shouldn't have to work a bit. Three or four dedicated members is all it takes. Three or four dedicated members is what any guild should at least have. 500k is nothing to make as a GROUP. That's what a guild is, no?
Are you guys that newbiesh as you speak?
What do you need to form a guild: 15 members. 15 active members.
I do not know a single guild that had 15 experienced members at their start.
You say, 500k/15 men = 33,3k / person. Reasonable enough. IF this was the final cost, IF this gold goes directly to the guild.
How about the gameplay? Why cant I join a guild as lvl 12 or lvl15? I must not die, not spend gold for fancy equipment, not try to level up. Every effort must go for keeping a specific sum for the guild.
And PARDON ME, but 500k is not the final price. This is for guild formation and includes few rooms. If you want armoury - pay more, if you want npcs - pay more, if you want shop, bar, mail - pay loads more.
This makes it a huge amount of cash. You all think of the position of people who have nothing else to do. Think of someone who is logging every once a week to relax and do a quest or two, to kill few npcs for gold, to check boards, news etc.. What, they dont deserve to be guilded? I dont think so.
And the Tevildo case is the following: Ainur limit the game enough, we dont need to limit it ourselves more by suggesting things they have not yet thought of.
If you have extra time, sit and write a sinful petition about how we can have more options to extend our playabilities.
True dat!
wandering guildhall npcs lets idling bitches max stalking over the course of the days of char age they just sit there hunting targets while drunk maybe?!?!?! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING
Looks like most people here actually have their heads screwed on straight :) If that's what it takes to get a healthy debate going, I'll just list all my petitions!
APPROVED:
1070, Guild Entrance Emotes
1662, Invite_message Improvements
2004, Skinning Horses
2141, Reasonable Name Screening
DONE:
1069, Roaming Guild NPCs
1264, Fix Counter, simplified
1454, Split Disembark command
1533, Dead Marshes unregioned
1892, Sorting Books
1893, Revise Bounty Costs
2089, Broken Weapons
2109, Guild NPC Actions
2204, Resting for Mounts
2273, Guild Formation Fix
I'm sure something in there ruined someone's lunch. Flame away!
Maybe I should've also read the rest of the comments. I skipped Aduial's, too long :P
Oh Aduial stated that already. Nice:) My bad I didn't read it. Guess you all are on the ball then eh!!!!
All these new guilds RP worth shit. 500k? Nothing at all. I wouldn't consider myself a powerplayer, wannabe powerplayer, or roleplayer. I'm here just to support my guilds these days. I don't say my PK skills are fucking 1337, but I know my huntbreaks decent enough. I don't know every single detail Tolkien mentioned, but RP decently enough when I want to. Yet, I would gather 500k fucking solo in a week had I the motivation to support such a guild. But I don't believe there are any new clans worthy of becoming a guild right now.
If members aren't willing to put in that tiny bit of effort, they don't deserve to have their own guild. I could think of a few people that would NEVER be anywhere near being labelled a powerplayer, who can still gold decently enough to reach level 19. *cough Celoril?
Has anyone seen even the tiniest bit of RP coming from say.. Quickblades? I sure as hell haven't. All a guild needs is a few loyal members to stay around. MDMS would be the perfect example of a guild with a good theme, but a guild that should still be disbanded. I ended up being the only active member left around, and for a few months, I golded the monthly rent myself each month (even changed my profession to thief so I could do it with minimal login time), pestered other members to get their aging in, then, finally, realized that MDMS, although very loved by myself and very unique in my opinion, was not worthy of being a guild in Arda simply due to lack of members willing to put some effort in, and therefore having a serious decline in RP or anything at all.
So basically, guilds are supposed to be unique. Effort is supposed to be put into creating a guild. If its just a bunch of alts wanting their own home, they don't deserve it. Every guild needs their loyal, dedicated members, and not just alts. And with a few of those, they should have no problem staying around.
Yeah, definitely, I was just saying that they weren't right out of the books by any means, but definitely had a solid thing going.
nod, AA is pre-dev22.
i think aa was pre dev 22
Aduial: 'Because these 10 idlers are too busy aging on their alts for their 5 other guilds to meet their activity requirements. There are too many guilds, the playerbase is spread too thin.'
I completely agree.
I would say, though, that the occasional group, like Aina Amarth, is only very loosely based on things Tolkien wrote about - but is fully fleshed out in their doctrine, theology, practices, everything, and in my opinion have served as a very effective and interesting guild before. I do agree that guilds need tighter thematic controls, but I think AA are a great example of where uniqueness and research beat out actual plausibility.
I think you all fail to realize this one point. 15 people together to create 500k isn't the problem. The problem is that those 15players are probably alts of 15 other players. You take 15players from a average of 70users and then you start to hurt the already existing guilds. Activity/golding/rp etc etc. This current system, before the 500k change, worked with 120 average users. This fix is good in that it should make us focus on the existing guilds instead of creating new temp ones. I personally say screw the whole thing and bring back all the original guilds etc etc, pets, skills, etc etc, but thats just me:)
I think most of you are missing the point of enforcing more theme quality control over new guilds, and the rest of you are just so stuck up with that omg omg 500k !!1!!! and don't realize that what Tireless said makes perfect sense. You don't have to gold 24/7 to make 2k a day. An hour a day, alone is all it takes. Not to even mention that if you're in a party or, god forbid, have more than 1h, you'll make a whole lot more. 500k is a shitload for one person, two people, three people. It is not for 15 people! Any 15 newbs or RPers can do it easily. The only problem is that new guilds nowadays don't even have 15 contributing members. They have 5 contributing members and 10 idlers who are there to make their 4h monthly. And why is that? Because these 10 idlers are too busy aging on their alts for their 5 other guilds to meet their activity requirements. There are too many guilds, the playerbase is spread too thin.
Now for theme. Just look at the themes of guilds post-dev22. And then look at the guilds pre-dev22. They have pages and pages of justification of their themes, with quotes from Tolkien's works, making themselves look real, giving themselves a real role in Arda. They are each a real group that existed and was described by Tolkien. And what does it take to create a guild now? Heya, I'm an elf, my guildhall will be in Lothlorien because elves lived there. I will be defending Lothlorien and assaulting Khamul's warcamp and Moria. I'm a guild now, because that's all there is to it. How does that add to the value of this game? How does it add to the value any more than the guilds with real themes and real role-play add? How hard is it to read Tolkien's books and find something that you want to be, that existed, and back your role up? Be something original, not the every elf or hobbit. I think it just proves to everybody that you want your guild to exist, you want it to be original and awesome, you want to have a definite role in Tolkien's Arda. Much like 500k for a guildhall. Who can't pull 100k? Three people can make this over two weeks, even if one of them is always busy and the other two are golding. Three people and a random silly theme, that's what guilds are nowadays. How does that add to the game?
So the old guilds are extorting the new ones? Cool, I have people to PK! Dimas was just telling me how I had become too peaceful.
Yeah, the new guilds are so good roleplayers... not. This new change will hopefully result in less guilds, which means more activity in the old guilds, which probably will lead to more roleplaying in the old guilds. It's not a matter of trying to prevent people from roleplaying, it's from how I view it, about making it easier. The new guilds suck, end of story. I mean, PoT has been a guild for like a year or something, and they still haven't rebuilt the damn bridge. And they blame it on the Bree guards...
Hrm, then why would Tevildo want to screw up the other people who want to RP? Ah, speaking of him, why was he wearing ER EQ?:P
hehe
People like Tevildo. :p
See, Kubar? That's what I was talking about.
And Tireless, excuse me, I have a RL. I make less than 3k an hour. I'm happy with two and most of it goes on secondaries.
I don't want this MUD to be a bunch of geeks who gold like bots 24/7. I'd rather have people who RP with colourful descriptions.
I hate when someone use BKD word so much when he/she knows nothing about it....
And duncan, Kubar said 2 good thieves could make 500k each in 30d. That's less than 20k/d/person - that's certainly not 500k in 2d :P
I can (and did) finance a clan going guild on one character (who was not a thief) in 3d char age. (The clan in question disintegrated because the CM wasn't keeping good enough qc over his members, then left - so they never used the money, but I sure as hell gave it to them).
500k is definitely a stretch - for one player. But if you have 15 people contributing to going guild, that's just 34k/head. If you wanted to go guild in one month - which is fairly quickly - that means making just over 1k/day. Granted, the day of reboot is always harder than others to make gold, but then, 3d 12h uptime is easier than the other days to make gold, so days balance out. A mediocre/poor golder can make 3k/hr if they're really trying to gold. If they're twiddling around and are unable to make 1k/hr, that's not too great.
So what 500k to go guild asks is that a guild who wants to become a guild in 30 days have each member spend between 20 minutes and an hour golding each day for that one month. After that, prices of everything go down.
Now, let us compare that to 100k to go guild. That's about 3.5k/day for a month. Who on this logpage, even at low levels, cannot say that they can make more than 1.75k/hr? In the present system, we are asking any clan who wants to go guild to have ONE MEMBER spend between 40 minutes and 2 hours per day for one month to finance their ENTIRE CLAN going guild.
500k doesn't sound so unreasonable any more, methinks.
Pallasch, you said you could singlehandedly pwn NiA. Well you might. You and I have both singlehandedly pwned say Valacirca at some point. Does this mean VC should get disbanded. Azer is idle and busy. You and I can pwn BKD. Does it mean we should disband BKD? I mean, yes, I can singlehandedly pwn most of the guilds today - does this mean they shouldn't exist?
Yes, BKD can pwn the quickblades and most of the other guilds - should we disband all guilds but BKD? Boring:P
Guilds aren't about pwning - and the NiA are nice people. I merely want nice people in the game.
Kubar, most of the people who can make 500k in two days suck as personalities. I prefer nice personalities who don't pwn than assholes who think they pwn (and don't).
*shrug* 2 good thieves can make 500k each in 30 days. Not that hard.
Duncan... did you seriously just compare FRA to NiA? What the fuck? You're smarter than that.
You are missing the point here. How the hell are new (probably better) guilds appear on the scene when you limit them that bad?
I dont believe any of the starter guilds can afford 500k for creation fee.
They got to pay for armoury, for rooms, special rooms, npcs, everything that their minds have as Roleplay or just style.
Ok, old guilds rule. There are guilds that are bound to the mud and there is no mud without them. This is the problem of this mud, it has all the same things over and over again.
Give chance to new guys to show what they got, to show you things you never thought of. You cant limit their fantasy in a fantasy game because some jerk thought 'I am tired of seeing new guilds'. Well, if you are tired ignore them or maybe re-tire.
I dont think this is the brightest idea and goes off to show how many idiotic petitions people submit every day, but nobody will even think of fixing some real problems that a player meets every day.
So, the Narika-o Dunland exists cause you miss DH?
Yeah, Myrddin is wicked dangerous with his Draugnar.
When I was Daen Hecil we made Udungul kneel in 6 hours:P What took you so long?:P
Kubar, I do roleplay:) It's in my description! I'm the wildest Dunlending you've ever met!
And yes, BKD is a good example of roleplay. I was talking about the REST. Because the skills of the players of today's Meglivornth, FRA, Udungul, Durmanhoth, Valacirca match those of Nar-i-Anor. I'd actually favour Nar-i-Anor in a war against most of the other guilds.
I mean - those who label them 'good' are not much better than the newbs. Slightly better from my PoV. And the newbs RP better and are better personalities. Thumbs up for the newbs!
Ah cool, understood!
I suppose Duncan meant he's the 'oldschool powerplayer', Kubar.
Good post Duncan, but tell me aren't you a bit of a hypocrite if you hang out with Winnetou and pk with him, wearing dark rings and get a great stab? I don't see you role playing, or do you want to call yourself an average powerplayer too?
Anyways, what you said in that post I agree with, yet I never saw it coming from you bro.
You and I agree on alot of things, but here's one thing we disasgree at. Old guilds, take BkD for example one that i'm more than familiar with; Not only do they have a great theme and a unique place in Arda, they got a history.
Their counterpart, Udungul.. interaction is the key here, and fucking A, did we battle those guys when they had their camp over in NER. It wasn't all PK, it was RP too. Erebor's run over with easterlings man. and hell, it made both our guilds thrive on it. Picture that. then think on PoT and these NiA you talk about... hell even QB, i mean what do they add really. Nothing honestly. nothing at all. but fuck it, let em exist, who cares. I don't.
500k is fucking insane.
It makes only wannabe powerplayers have guilds. Yes, you got it right - the MUD is full of wannabe powerplayers and therefore it sucks.
Let me define a 'wannabe powerplayer'. This is a person who heard here and there about the cool stuff in Arda, got a script or two, perhaps bettered them, does whats 'good and easy gold', loots uniques, flames on the comm, sits in GH.
The average 'wannabe powerplayer' has perhaps read one of Tolkien's books but doesn't really care that this is a Tolkien MUD. For the 'wannabe powerplayer' this is a place where you can 'piss off other people' and 'pwn newbs'. Some wannabe powerplayers have distinguished 1337 skeelz! So don't mess with them or they are gonna report your lame ass!
The wannabe powerplayer likes to get a good stab and pwn people with it - but unlike the real oldschool powerplayers, the wannabe gets bored by maintaining secondaries and learning how to optimize an attack on another player.
Instead, the wannabe powerplayer prefers to wield/wear unique weapons/armours (preferably from the armoury) and 'pwn' people with them 'cause 'Unique shit is good, why should I care how it works?'
The wannabe powerplayer is very happy to code/quest a heavy armour with awesome stats and call it as good as the carapace because the 'compare' command and friendly Ainur say so.
The wannabe powerplayer has thief alts/friends and has long ago learned how to rob companies and how to wait for ticks. Linhir golding is also cool.
Sadly, the wannabe powerplayers can never be like the oldschool powerplayers but who really cares? They just wanna make some newb feel embarassed.
So, the MUD is full of such players - it's rotting. Nothing new, nothing challenging...
I came here because it was a Tolkien based MUD - and on one of the trivias nobody had even heard about Lalaith (Turin's sister who died in the plague).
So, the people who have heard about Lalaith don't really feel like running cool scripts to pwn companies at dawn -> so they don't have gold. Some of them don't even get maxed. They just enjoy the game - ENJOY!!! That's what the game needs - JOY!
The Galadhrim were once a newbie guild - I think they are much better than the older guilds now. Look at Nar-i-Anor - I'm happy that they exist, they make the game better.
More new guilds = more fun.
500k. Alright, there's nothing to whine about there. You can tell they've thought it through. You need 15 members to keep a guild running right. Alright, it's not hard for 15 members (minimum amount) to hoarde up 500k between themselves. Powerplayers would do it much easier, maybe a bit more of a hassle for the RP type of player. It's not a ridiculous amount and it reassures that making a guild isn't all-too easy, either.
New guilds only cost 100k to make? Thats ridiculously cheap. 150k would still be pretty cheap. With 500k, maybe at least the members in the guild won't all still be newbies when they get there. Most of these new guilds are just plain pathetic.
No.
I don't think there is any increase in the cost of -maintaining- a guild, is there?
Yeah, Tevildo's pulling all the strings.
See, he tricks a vast majority of the voters (who actually vote and try to participate in which way the MUD is going instead of just moaning when it doesn't go the way they want) into voting for a petition calling for a slight increase to guild formation costs.
THEN, he manipulates Valinor into interpreting 50% as 500%, writes the proposal himself (without even using a thesaurus!), pushes it through, and then has himself a cognac and fine Cuban cigar in the safety of the guildhall.
And then he eats a baby. Alive. On a Friday.
Yes, I still have only one semi-decent log.
And he died just once for that stupid idea?
Ok, now that changes things :) I agree creating a guild should cost more then it does today, but not maintaing it. So i halfly agree to being against this then :)
'As for why Duncan attacked me... I'd never heard of this guy before today'
If this Duncan is the same as the old one, it's kinda strange he never heard of him, and it seems Tevildo don't read winnetou's logs of ER fighting...
No the petition is not bad.
' Yeah, that's the one saying that guilds should have plausible themes. Apparently that's a bad thing.'
That is only one half of it. The other one suggests that the cost of guild formation be increased. That part Tevildo forgot to mention here. Apparently, someone took his 50% increase suggestion for a 5 times increase so as a result of the petition (although i hope not intended) new guilds now have to pay 500k instead of 100k.
So from improving themes and roleplaying the stress in the game is moved to golding.
How the fuck can you be against this petition? All new guilds since the fucking dev should burn in hell.
I'm all for a bit of Tevildo bashing.. but that wasn't a half bad petition.
No idea what petition its all about, Tevildo, but if you die 3 times for 3 different idiotic posts, you will sit on your sorry ass inside GH and think again if this is the smartest thing to do.
My opinion is that you should give me your lunch money every day.
The amusing thing is that his opinion doesn't count :) The petition already passed by a huge margin--his chance to say 'hey, let guilds suck all the want' is long past. What's he gonna do, try to figure out everyone who supported it, and annoy the Powers who put it into effect? At the end of the day, the game has been improved, and all Duncan has to show is a mediocre log. I win.
Why, everyone has an opinion, and some defend it with power :)
he wrote that petition? what a bitch:P
Haven't people got in trouble before (considered harassment?) for killing people due to their petitions?
Oh come on, Jared, it's not that hard to check petitions. If you make it a habit, it doesn't take more than 30 seconds per login. Seriously, complaining about the dominance of the literate over the illiterate is not an argument you're going to win over a text game.
And so it began, the first petition war...
Haha, Kelos, many more will die because of their bullshit in petitions. You cant just sit at an innroom and ruin the game for others that really dont have time to read stupid petitions.
Everyone is responsible for their words.
Well, if someone petitioned something I was strongly against and it got implimented, I'd be bitter. But I don't see what's wrong with this specific petition, so meh.
Killing someone over a petition is ridiculous.
Seems like a sensible petition to me.
I could have broken at the jeweled dagger area, which I had just come out of, but I knew Golradir was AFK and didn't have an alias from there. Duncan's last two headbutts put me too low in HP to use maiden, and by then it was a bit too late to use another break.
As for why Duncan attacked me... I'd never heard of this guy before today, when he apparently took personal offense at my petition 2273 (Guild Formation Fix). Yeah, that's the one saying that guilds should have plausible themes. Apparently that's a bad thing.
What did he do to piss you off?
Why would you want to kill Tevildo?
There there. *pat pat*
Otherwise, Tev had a few options there. Kind of an odd place to attack someone, really, but Tev never broke and took advantage of any evasion he has. Pretty anticlimactic kill, though.
Aww I will venture to once more me self-serving and audacious with my commentary Tevildo -> I bet you wish there was an inn in Edoras? Furthermore, allow me to thank you for proving that survival on the T2T is definitely not critically based on knowing how to successfully huntbreak. Oh wait... I'm sure the maiden was around there somewhere.
He did repeatedly.
Random kill, or did Tevildo hurt your feelings recently?