huh i only saw i had 94hp and typed alias to osgiliath but then i went down pretty fast.... probbably gala-attack potion, anyway thanks for fun:)
I think I should be able to backstab with a boat... just build up a good head of steam, drive that shit up onto the land, and aim for people. Why not? M1rn4c R clev0r. 'Backstab' does not equal 'big, obvious, easily blocked lunge with a weapon the size of a Buick'.
Jaron's got the right idea, though. The trend has been toward making attackers and defenders carry more and more extraneous crap to balance each other. There has to be a ceiling somewhere, and it's more sustainable for it to be lower rather than higher.
<3 Insane's alias, by the way.
Tireless, this was probably logged before you started playing. I am pretty sure fang was tweaked a few times. Log's comments agree with me.
Jaron, fang doesn't have any capitalized words in its emotes.
http://logs.dyndns.dk/comments.php/1830
Yes. It had that emote, didn't it?
Piotyr PIERCES you RIGHT THROUGH the chest!!!
Fang?! :P
I thought that was fang?
First hit 72 second hit 100 with a icer.
http://logs.dyndns.dk/viewer.php/1830
Im guessing this was kinda a speciel case with alot of tries and boosting. But it happend atleast.
The old backstab could do 100 damage over the 2 rounds easilly, plus your forgetting all the other crap you could do with your boosted skills.
Ice staff and fang do 100 HP stabs sometimes but that's the fascinating thing about them.
Duncan, I may have stopped golding or crap, but as you can see from Ithilcalad's log, I am still pking now and then, and I know what I'm talking about. You come up with ideas like 'make dragon easy to kill' or 'make it so that when I get stabbed at 10 hp I get away with 5 hp', you lose the right to say people don't know what they are talking about. Hell, you won't even argue against my simple solution instead of calling me out of touch. I suggest you quit playing if you can't deal with me voicing my ideas because I haven't been very active for a while, as the majority of coders and those who make decisions have not played a mortal more actively than me for a while much longer than that.
Obviously, most of you are unaware of the law of unintended consequences, which is the cause of pretty much all of problems here. Backstab was the only skill that could deal no damage after success, and that was fixed in a rather fine way, yet the uintended consequence was that many people could now backstab and get a hell lot of damage instantly. That was fixed as well, but two handed weapons were buffed, with the unintended consequence of monster two handed backstabs. Any major change, such as messing with the code of backstabs, or preventing backstabs with two handed weapons would only cause more adverse effects. Instead of doing that, it is much easier to go back to the root of the problem and make it so that the bonuses gained from using two handed weapons doesn't work in the backstab hit, ie: you can backstab with two handed weapons, but just won't get the major damage they do now (I don't think anyone got 100 hp damage on backstabs before that change).
Yeah that is why the comment, this and that wouldnt be realistic or wouldnt work in RL, and at the same timing claiming you want backstabs todo less dmg is fucking stupid.
Keep RL out of the mud, or make everything instant death unless you don't miss.
Id use a dwarven warhammer.
i'd use a gun.
Eh.. If I wanted to kill someone IRL, I'd use a nice dagger and one hand. A two-handed sword would be much more heavier which would make the attack slower and it wouldn't change much if you're not completely retarded and know where to stab :P Just if you want to bring the realism factor into it.. yeah.
Maybe you should Duncan, you would be great at it.
Scat, backstabbing with two hands is a very good idea IRL. Try it the next time you want to kill someone. Unless you want them to live.
And Jaron, you stopped playing somewhere in 2003. I know you can be a good player, just stop talking because you obviously have had no experience since then. I'm not giving ideas how to balance Frozen Throne am I?
I hate when people say that this and that isnt logic or cannot be done and stuff. Why the fuck shouldnt you be able to backstab with a two handed weapon? Who said you have to bring it up over your head and trust it down into an enemy? Get in from behind and just pierce for fuck sake. Think before writing your stupid this cannot be done in rl shit. THINK PEOPLE FUCKING THINK
Proportional damage is stupid. It renders good timing obsolete. Just removing the extra two handed damage would be okay. The problem is not with the backstab change, it is with the other buffs that allow so much damage.
Two-handed weapons shouldn't be 'backstabbable' under any circumstance. Beyond not being realistic, it's illogical. You can't thrust effectively with two hands gripping on a sword. I'd support (even write) a petition that implements proportional damage based on HP and eliminates two-handed weapons from the assassination scene.
Or a really simple solution: make two handed weapon bonuses inapplicable to backstabs.
Id have to agree with restricting backstab to what SRS is currently at. Give a partial damage depending on health and assassination skills. But in the same time, this would mean that deathes would have to matter again. So its a revolving door in the end. IF you entice one change, you have to accept that to balance it out other things need to be changed. I agree with Laefang on that note, backstabs are correctly so combated with the instant healing which most guys hold around. But the trend these days is to use two handed weaps because of the damage boost they give, so, essentially the dark cloak is our only solution. I dunno, I am speaking my mind loudly here, I believe we have to shift back to the old system. Which includes, backstab changes along with Death changes. That would stabilize the situation for me personally. But then again, its a personal openion before anything else.
Let's just die or something?
Im WIth Hotham, Iv been trying to say that the mud have gone to long being screwed up way to long, and now they cannot fix it, dosnt matter what they changed or tweak it's doomed, Do a rollback and then start implementing all these areas we have now, remove evils but have evil areas left and so on. Quests areas and other improvments could be implemented into the old image of the mud.
What if we just said screw it all. and Nuked the mud back to what it was 4 years ago.
Don't get hung up on the 'real life' thing. What if the stab was an autokill for nd, no damage restrictions for dlsg (so an unlucky stab could do like... 5 damage... and the target gets away, or it could be a decent/nice stab and instakill), and have it capped at 50% for avg/good shape? To toss some numbers into the mix, if 40% were the number, that would make backstabs for low avg targets max out at 65hp, while backstabs for perfect level 22 targets would be capped at 120. Perhaps capping them at 60% of the target's health would be more reasonable? (max 78 for avg target, max 144 for a level 22 target)
it takes me like 15 hits to kill a rat with a hammer in real life...i always seem to 'bruise it deeply'
Didn't mean rib, i meant the other thing holding the ribs :) SPINE! There it was took a thinking :)
A real backstab ?? You mean in Real life? Because i doubt you would still be alive after getting a sword smashed through your rib, even when your at 'perfect' health.
It should take 50% of the victim's health every time, and if the victim is near death or low DLSG, should be instantly fatal. Like a real backstab.
I agree, Tireless. My petition though was to modify the stabs so they can't take more than 50% of the target's HP. I didn't mean to bring back the old stabs with two misses. Which means - a 100 HP stab can still happen if you are at perfect shape.
It's ridiculous to be afraid to go down to 90 HP because a lucky stab from someone who didn't even bother to bring healing would kill you. Takes away all the backhunting thrill and promotes wimpy style of playing. I really don't blame anyone for not doing dangerous things nowadays.
Well my petition lacked the consideration what to do when the target is already ND - 'Should the stab take 15 out of 30 HP?' Well may be leave it lethal in this case. But that's why I left the petition open for discussions and modification.
I rejected your petition because imo it is not complete. To return to old (lower) backstabs, either really anonymous attempts or huge death penalties or both would need to come back as well - and multiple specials would be a reasonable fourth, though it's not quite the same as the other three (it, combined with old backstab, would allow people to be killed, but it would necessitate bangs). If you take one of the three back without the other two, it's stupidly imbalanced and would make the game less fun.
If you only take one...
Old backstab: Very easy to escape, nobody who knows what they're doing ever has a chance of dying.
Old deaths: People die relatively easily with new backstab (compared to old backstab) so everyone would get statraped and the game would become about spending hours and hours each week releveling instead of playing, and that's no fun.
Anonymous attempts: Since random attempts from perfect actually have a significant possibility of success now, attempts would increase outrageously.
Hahahhahahhahahhahahahahaha:)
I'm only wondering if any of you complaining about backstabs rejected my petition to fix them:)
Or may be I wanted them to remain this way and that's why I petitioned it to have them modified so people would reject my petition because it's mine!:)))))))))))))))))
Mwahhahahah:)))) Really, I'm laughing so hard IRL:)
The highest amount of hp you can heal up instantly should be equal to the max damage from a backstab. Both are too high right now.
I have to disagree Waste, Duncan uses nearly everything he can to max out his damage, alot of effort/time is spent keeping his secondaries up/using skill boosting equipment and making sure he has the best weapons. His stab can do 100 damage but think of the flip side. A player putting alot less effort into his survivability has a lbc, 1 or 2 hand healings (depending if he's using a 2 hander) and a flask. So whilst golding this player can either sit there spamming shape or think 'hey if someone stabs me here it'd send me pretty low, how about i set up a trigger to drink on the stab' yes you'll have to type an alias to loot but your trigger still fires mid alias meaning alot greater survivability. Say duncan waits till his target has 100 ish health before he stabs. Stab is countered by the 1st hand healing giving plenty of time to drink the second/spam flask till full. Either way from full health an assassin has the daunting prospect of taking 230 + 80-100 + 80-100 + 2-3x30-40 hp off the target. That's a possible 510-550 (depending on stomach size) health to wade through through. So no a 100hp stab (just under 20%) isn't too much. Had duncan waited for his target to be at say 130hp, it's still a possible 410hp if his target has put half as much effort in as he did and once again it's only 25% of his targets possible health.
As for golding, with some nice armour/rings/possible dark and a decent wep then i hardly ever drop even to 150hp before i have to sell and get the chance to heal, now it's obvious not everyone has the time to kit themselves out fully, or maybe they're a few levels lower so take more damage and have less hp but then your comparing 2 different classes of player, and i've seen plenty of 20hp stabs to know the one shown in this log takes preparation and a better than average knowledge of arda to accomplish regularly.
Waste, if you need 2-3 rounds to react, you suck, and deserve to die.
The old backstab was much better, but like everything else, it had to be fixed...
Backstab was already nerfed once, I really don't think it's that bad right now.
Sarcastic that half my HP goes away from a backstab if I was at full health? No I am not being sarcastic. Its simply because I play the game the way I like it, which means I go out and kill in the wilderness and let my hp drop to whatever level I feel like dropping it to. But even when I am being careful and run out and heal at 150 hp, if i get stabbed and lost 95hp, i would be at 65 before I could even react. I do not have a chance of doing anything other than smack down whatever healing i have and hope the assassin hits do not casue so much damage. Its not fair. I need a chance to react, to try and get out of the situation, think of a huntbreak, or even, a lockup. If i only have 2-3 rounds to do all that, then there is something defnintly wrong.
Ofcourse, you only lose little in the death, and could recoup half of that with a report and even make a profit if its a bang, but deaths used to mean so much before. A maxed warrior going down solo was so respected by everyone. Now, think of the kills you see here, and tell me how many of them you think about more than 5 secs after closing down the window.
Waste, were you trying to be sarcastic?
--and the high backstab damage is a necessary evil resulting from the removal of fade and multiple specials/round.
Duncan chokes down the black liquid, and screams in rage!
=galadriel vial, Morgoth. He didn't use it here. He did use it in his second attempt, http://logs.dyndns.dk/viewer.php/11799, and only did 72 on that stab :P Stop whining about the vials.
Can you drink one gala vial and Al's potion together?
I don't, Sorry Korgan that It looks like, I just saw what he had on him, my mistake I didn't show it in log
Why do you assume that every potion is a gala vial? :p
Probably means Duncan is efficient in his killing style by harnessing every boosting advantage he can, using the best backstabbing weapons, poison, and keeping his secondaries maxxed at all times.
Probably means assassins need an attack bonus.
so it's too less? or too much? I don't really know
ooops sorry my bad
He didn't say you were, he said you went down 95 hp from on stab hit, learn how to read.
Waste it wasn't from 230, I was at 194 when he stabbed me
Ok, if the ainu do not act now when they see this log, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG! the guy went down 95 hp from one backstab hit, thats irrational in every perspective. WOW!
I thought I still had poison:P
oif
ouch
this ones my favorite.