Dunkin dies hard for attacking a guildmate...again
Heh. That's rich. But it's not what happened. I'm beginning to think Hirgail is right... half of what you wrote is a pack of lies, and you've either got a good poker face or you're too insane to even realize it. 'Some PKers are griefers' (clearly true) and 'some people share client settings' (demonstrably true) are not the same as 'every assassin is a throw-away character and 'griefer'' and '90% of assassins today use the exact same client.' That doesn't even make sense.
What?
Re: Urban
'I did not say you have to be a PKer to discuss PK's impact on the MUD.'
Re: Tevildo
You said all of that on the world comm you dumb shit, don't play the deny and deflect game.
Lies!
No ;)
Was he level 10?
I killed someone today from perfect in 3 hits without poison, gala vials, or any unique items.
Wow. Do you actually believe that's what I said, Exhalev, or are you setting up straw men? Or just being difficult?
In the past, those who weren't involved in PK and didn't bother carrying around 300hp in healing still had a fair chance to get away. Now, damage comes a lot quicker and I've seen people go from perfect to death in 5 rounds so, it's basically a necessity to have healing if you don't wanna get random killed.
Since I don't involve myself in PKing, does that mean I can't voice my opinions?
Pallasch, I think you should team up with your hero Kelemir and get owned by Dakar again. Then you can comment from the PKers side and/or the victim's side.
You can evade now Tireless, you've always been able to hide, and the reason backstab hurts so much is because assassins have to strike and remain committed, there are no half-assed 'Oh I can pussy out' fade attempts. With the removal of privacy, it is the responsibility of the potential victim to safeguard themselves. The difficult of pking someone is not directly related to the damage of the backstab. And also - with the changes to backstab you realize that now someone can only be stabbed once a minute, without fade you can't bang people with anonymous party members (unless you use dark on a non-esed target). The change to backstab is in correlation to the new assassin gameplay style - assassins are different but kill just as effectively as before. You cannot just account for one specific change in history to stand against a general gameplay change - with this logic, you'd have to rewind the entire MUD, let people spam headbutts like a shotgun, bring old feint back, etc etc etc... That's not logical, nor plausible.
I'm glad you agree, it is very reasonable to opt for a shift back to balance on this issue.
I am incredulous at the general populace's reactions because they are so heavily biased it is unbelievable - I can give in and make compromises, in the killer's role - very few victims can make concessions in a mature way. You'd expect more of an objective crowd here.
Pallasch, you insult Tevildo by showing an affinity for him.
Exhalev, while I understand your argument, I disagree. I think you know my objections (since we've had this discussion in private), but I'll reiterate them here for the benefit of anyone who might read the entire thing:
1.) Backstab was also changed around the time death was changed, making it much easier to kill. Backstab would have to be changed back if you wanted to increase death penalties. Please note that there isn't particularly much more healing available in the game now than there was historically; hand healing has been around for ages, LBC has been around since significantly before ERs, and new healing like bota and amber vial is competing for fullness, which means that pre-existing healing such as silver flask is less able to be used; the sheer amount of healing that is _capable_ of being carried is the same as ever. The difference is only that people elect to carry more now in response to backstabs being much stronger.
2.) I really don't think you can relate to 'both sides' - on the one side, you have being the killer and the victim; on the other side you have being the unwilling victim/victim who is unable to retaliate. That's where I was for a long time, and I assure you it's not the same. Things look totally different from that side, and I really don't think you can relate. That you think that what pretty much everyone says is so outrageous is a pretty clear indictment of your partisanship.
I do, however, thing some changes could be reasonable.
Tevildo is cooler than Exhalev. That's what I got.
Someone summarize, I'm on summer vacation and don't want to read an essay!
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... wonderful Tevildo, except you've misunderstood what I said.
1) I said assassins invest just as much, if not more, into their characters since it is the most specialized profession. Not only do they have to level and quest gear like everyone else, they must pay fines, and most often maintain secondary skills in order to be effective. Beyond this, they must possess a near 100% knowledge of quest locations, target behavioural patterns, huntbreak triggers, and many more facets of the game that the average player does not.
You and almost everyone stated that assassins do not invest anything in their characters, every assassin is a throw-away character and 'griefer', and that 90% of assassins today use the exact same client.
You said that PKing today was as easy as just pressing a button and letting your computer do the rest. This ignorance of the actual PK lifestyle does not act to convince me that you have any idea in the slightest about PKing, let alone an intimate knowledge of the subject matter, which you admitted to have gleaned from 'talking to PKers and reading some logs'.
This ignorance backs up my commentary that PKers have a better perspective on overall conflict because they have experienced both sides: killer and victim. I did not say you have to be a PKer to discuss PK's impact on the MUD. You have to be a PKer to see both sides of it. Pay attention.
If you harbour such blatant misconceptions about PKing in a technical sense, not to MENTION the distilled -bullshit- about people's intentions when striving for a fix/shift in the balance of the lawsystem, how can your opinions be taken seriously?
The biggest issue here is the fact that you cannot think for a moment that someone might take a step back, analyze an imbalance in the game, consider the role of a singular profession, and try and iron things out. It is true that I enjoy PK, as I enjoy other parts of this MUD - and that is what has brought this balance issue to my attention. An issue that evidently would sweep by a 'non-PKer's observation. You have to realise that it is my experience that has brought this to the forefront of my arguments, and not a personal investment in the activity itself. I have been objectively analyzing the issue, hoping for constructive suggestions from other people - Instead, I find biased morons, some more articulate than others, who try and shoot this down at every turn. I am not saying this issue is the biggest one facing the MUD. Putting resources toward innovative ideas to help newbies, fixing certain things with the ranger profession, re-defining the sniffer's role in this era, etc, are all things that could be dealt with.
BUT - As it stands this issue is a marginalization of the most specialized and dynamic profession, and is a basic lawsystem balance issue. I'm sorry that you cannot separate the anxiety of losing a few more stats/skills/experience points when you -die-, from looking at the imbalance and making a fair commentary, or putting forth a few suggestions as to how to fix it.
On a side note, don't take flaming so seriously, it is simply reciprocal behaviour incited by your haughty, indignant reaction to an objective discussion. Please, move on.
Addressing your final point - PK -is- and -can be- a healthy element of the game. It poses challenges, keeps things fresh, adds a feeling of risk or excitement when things might potentially grow tedious or repetitive. It is a diplomatic tool, it allows for players to strive to learn a profession requiring knowledge like no other, it keeps certain 'griefers' in line, and the list goes on.
I agree wholeheartedly that the pendulum swung much too far to the left, with ERs and all that rampant killing. Naturally, it has now swung/is swinging too far to the right. The contract system is bugged, masks do not work whatsoever and bug combat. Deaths do not do the damage they are supposed to. They were nerfed to balance out the dramatic increase in unreimbursed deaths during the battlepoint era. This time has come to an end, random PK is very rare, and players possess a universal ability to escape attackers in these instances. Now that all deaths are reimbursed outside lawless lands, the penalty for dying should be reverted to the former one. That set was balanced, and there was never any whining about it until the deaths became much more prevalent.
People might argue that this would be true only if the last ratio of loss to fines was balanced, and I say two things to this: 1) There is no disputing that an imbalance has been created now, and needs to be addressed, and 2) No one complained back then, they just lived it with, and took it like a man (Tevildo's emphasis)
I don't live in Tasmania
And Tevildo, you can address that letter to:
Hirgail
Isle of Hippies
Tasmania.
Visual. Learn how to type, noob.
Tevildo I have a cousin who is schizophrenic. He has paranoid delusions and up until a few years ago believed he was a wizard. He'd wear robes and walk around with a long stick (I'm not kidding. Even in the Isle Of Hippies -Tasmania- this raised eyebrows.) Anyway, I was wondering if you'd write him a letter convincing him of the fallacy of his delusions and that what he is actually experiencing are auditory and visial hallucenations.
Want me to break it down? Let's go.
-You claim that someone needs to be a PKer in order to discuss PK's impact on the game. Anyone who isn't an active PKer can't be involved, even if they have long-term and intimate knowledge of the systems involved. It's a blatant ad hominem argument AND an association fallacy, AND a strange, arrogant appeal to (self-assumed) authority. I'm not sure you could have a weaker position if you tried.
-By your logic, only PKers would discuss and make decisions on critical game systems. You ignore the clear conflict of interest that would create.
-You have also stated that issues of fines and death penalties can only be understood by someone who 'plays both sides', PKer and unwilling target. Not only is that a false dichotomy, you ignore that it excludes you from being a qualified participant.
-Your claims about me are argumenta ad ignorantiam. You know next to nothing about me and fill that in with self-serving nonsense.
-The picture you paint of a healthy PK element in the game, using yourself as proof-by-example, is completely invalid. 'My PK isn't griefing', therefore 'no PK is griefing'? It simply doesn't follow.
Shall I continue?
No, you lose. You blew your top when two analogies showed the absurdity of your argument, and I had nothing more to say to you. Just take it like a man.
(On another note, I don't see any comms in this log.)
Let's hope nobody mocks you for your inability to not appear insane on the internet.
I wouldn't classify -you- being unable to construct a legitimate and logical counterpoint, then logging off, as your -opponent- 'losing' an argument. And this log seems to be very related, as it includes part of the comm discussion itself within: See -> Fyng mocking your ignorance of playerkilling.
Every time I see the name Goomboo, I have fond flash backs of Mario.
I want more comments from Daeril and Tireless... *Your swearing skill has been increased due to reading comments*
Lies, I never left the game
The hell...? Lose an argument, take it offsite to a completely unrelated log? Weak.
Dunkin has died.
Dunkin left the game.
Die Hard 4 - Goomboo's Adventures :P
How lame is your client?
Tireless should shut up. I already suicide a long time ago. Just that you didn't realise it 'Tire'less...
Ulfanil should suicide.
Dunkin should suicide..
Look, it's Fyng going apeshit on the comm!
And Dunkin dying!
This is a beautiful day.
So...how does one die softly?
The log or the bitch fight?
This is awesome!
WARNETH ME FOR MINE VIRULENT ATTACKS AGAINST HIS PERSONA.
Il faut que vous bougez rapidement!
Bitch fight.
Mr Moderator, I expect a warning for that.
Sorry for taking your place as his donkey puncher. Go suck some more GiM cock with your thief alt bitch.
Daeril, of course, being the ultimate judge of worth in game; the paragon of what all players should strive towards. I could make some snide jab at Ravathir, since bringing up people who have nothing to do with the situation seems to be the cool thing to do, and I could insult Daeril for making such a comment, but I'll go for the third option:
Daeril, shut the fuck up. Seriously.
Dunkin's huntbreaking/general gameplay skill is now rivalling that of Tevildo's, and their mutual ignorance leads me to believe there may be an RL connection here!
Pathetic.