Posted for the benefit of the members of BkD who were demoted and cannot read.
Sorry, I didn't phrase that clearly, Regorn. One of the reasons I posted this was so that everyone could see that it wasn't one of the two or three guys who got demoted who were funneling me information.
Manni, you might be a great, cool guy, or you might be a jackass. I don't know you and I don't give a crap. The thing is, you're full of shit. I mean,
'The reason I posted this is because they were demoted before this log was posted and could thus not read the post because their board access was removed.'
if that was the freaking reason, you would've just mailed them.
Last Death: 39d 17h 25m 6s ago
On For: 39m 24s Last On: Wed Nov 14 15:57:56 2007
Age: 31d 17h 59m 44s 30dAging: 8h 41m 14s
as you can see, my aging not only exceeded 2 hours but was over the activity requirement which far exceeds many others.
ugh, now look. you all made me post again..
As I explained to the demoted individuals, their demotion was no a punishment, and was temporary; they retained access to the armoury so on the off chance they wanted to play (None of their activity was over 2 hours); it was designed to protect them to as great an extent as was possible. I explained the situation with as much clarity as I possibly could to them in person or by mail.
I agree with Manni. They are outstanding guys. They're some of my favorite members. The demotion, as I explained to them, was for their benefit as well, and they (claimed) they understood my position.
And then die.
Also with your mouth.
Or maybe you should bury that sense of humour in a shoebox in the back yard.
I read Sun-Tzu. Maybe I should declare a war on brownies and destroy them from all angles. With my mouth.
Heh well first off... Thanks.
I haven't read The Art of War... But as far as posting this intentionally, when Arda's largest, wealthiest, and most active guild declares war on you, you can't afford to do anything by accident.
Lastly, I don't want to say that we're winning the war because as far as I can tell there's a long way to go and I wouldn't say I'd rather be in our position than theirs, but I will say that i think things are going well for us.
Manni,
have you ever read the Art of War?
You seem quite good at what your doing, but I am not sure if its intentional or not. Planting seeds of mistrust within the ranks of the enemy, making them think there is a spy within their midst, but not knowing who it is...its like its not enough to beat them on the grid, but you must also destroy their spirit and morale as well. ( i have no clue if your 'winning' or not, because what we see on the log page often isnt the whole picture).
Is this intentional, or are you just trying to start shit?
None of the guys who were demoted ever a) told me they had alts in BkD b) Offered to give me information about BkD c) Gave me information about BkD.
They're upstanding guys who didn't deserve to be demoted.
The reason I posted this is because they were demoted before this log was posted and could thus not read the post because their board access was removed. If they had no way of reading it, how could they have given it to me?
I have considered long and finally, i may have a solution.
Character A, being of Guild 1, logs in from computer Z, at the behest of typist Blue.
Typist Blue then makes a 45 degree turn to computer F (his laptop) and logs on with Character B, who is in Guild 2.
Character A would then move to point X-RAY, and await his fate.
Character B would also move to point X-RAY, without even needing a find from wizard R.
Character B would then backstab and hunt Character A. Character A would probably huntbreak his own typist, because typist Blue forgot that his client, call it client Golf, does everything for him. The guildmates of Character A, alerted by his comm, tell Character A to lock Character B up, then quickly move in for the kill. Typist Blue, being fairly inept, gets over excited and follows the instructions of his guildmates, thereby locking himself in with himself. He then kills himself, and loots the corpse, which is all multiplaying, and gets himself and himself nuked.
With A and B nuked, and Blue banned from the Mud, Guild 1 and Guild 2 can continue there killing of each other without fear that 2 knows 1s secrets or that 1 knows 2s secrets.
I hope this simple solution didn't confuse anyone.
Yeah don't worry Rau, I didn't really read it so
Foraker, it's called Character Seperation. It's promoted within the game.
Look at it like this. Character A is in Guild X, Character B is in Guild Y. Character A is the preferred character to play, while B is played, but not so much. The only ways in which A and B 'interract' is in killing the opposing guild. Then the guildmaster of Guild Y comes along and demotes Character B without reason except that Character B has a character in Guild X. You can't do that. It's like how you can't Kill someones alt because their main pissed you off once (yes, it happens, but it shouldn't).
Now a usual comeback to this might be 'I'm protecting my guild by doing this' then you must ask 'Why should they pose a threat?' to which a reply could likely be 'Because they have an alt in the guild i'm warring, although i have no proof that that alt in particular has actually done anything to harm my guild'.
This comment isn't about this whole comment thread, just to Foraker's comment. 'I see no problem with removing or limiting access of people who are in both guilds, especially if they are only actually active on one side.' Although he said 'especially if they are only actually active on one side', that still means it's acceptable if they're not.
And yes, i'm very very bored right now - thus the long useless comment. I'll prolly be flamed for this :P
Durms whining that Pentheus is MPing by trying to remove MPers? Wtf? I see no problem with removing or limiting access of people who are in both guilds, especially if they are only actually active on one side. If they care so much they can hibernate one char.
Heathens.
Bring some Ballantine or Private Stock, then we'll be in business.
Some Ol' E, Colt 45 and Mickeys!
Let's get drunk!
Darkhour, there has been no rap battle. Only a rap challenge. I stand hating, my fate be awaiting.
lol, the rap battle was hilarious,
Well, I proposed the rap battle, Manni said no...if he changes his mind, however...
I think all BKD and durm members should log on at an agreed time, and battle it out for 3 hours.. then when it's all done. Call it a day.
Nice log, good anti-hb triggering skills and neat loot. Keep up the good work.
lols @ tortuga
Interestingly enough, I have ~20h greater aging on this character than my next most active one, and was hovering around 6h when I got GM... so if we were still using 2wk aging instead of 30d aging, I'd be around 36-40 hours greater aging on this char than my next most active.
Of course, Fyng has historically never needed to know what he was talking about, and holds his opinion on matters in which he is extremely poorly informed to be gospel.
At no time have I ever criticized a member for playing an alt more than their BKD. That is their prerogative. I've taken no measures against any BKD with any degree of malice. Everything I've done I've done to try and protect ALL my members.
It's kind of ironic that Fyng, of all people, would talk about others being loose cannons on their alts. No alt of mine has ever affected or attempted to affect guild alliances in any manner, and no character of mine has ever done anything that could plausibly be defined as being 'a loose cannon'.
I did in fact get a warning for this post. A slip in politically correct phrasing made the sentence there technically against the rules, and I don't dispute the warning. It happens. I'm not in any warning trouble. It's not like I'll have to take a wheel spin any time soon.
I still stand by my comment about Adoni being lame.
From help multiplaying ->
There are also rules related to revealing the identity of alternate
characters:
A. You may not publicly (comms, boards, shouts, or similar) discuss
the existing alts of anyone, including yourself. This includes
publicly asking for, or publicly offering to tell someone about,
anyone's alternate characters.
Glad you all are so well versed with the god damn rules before you lay down judgements.
And, by the way, Adoni asked what happened to the whip after members of my guild had already seen the whip on Lucky... So if Adoni had been in contact with us, he would've known what happened to it.
Adoni has shown a great ability to separate characters in the war. Hell, I even let Azer's alt remain in Durmanhoth through the last war, even after he asked about the Mordor password early in a boot on the guild comm and a bunch of people wanted me to boot him. Ultimately he just betrayed my trust too much and I had to expel him.
But when someone simply has a character in another guild and has given you no reason to think their BkD character is untrustworthy, it is multiplaying to demote them.
You're taking revenge on their BkD character for actions taken by their Durmanhoth character. At least make another excuse for it and don't be so blatant on the board when you do that.
It's not MP for a non-Durm typist who is against the war to mail me board posts.
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=812
It's not my fault I was born awesome :P
Also he didn't write names on his board, so where is multiplaying?
If everyone knows that you are doing during the war, where is the point of declaring it? I think what Pentheus did is so normal...
And just for the record, I still own you all every other Tuesday. Except Bakal. He's a wild one.
Tulkas found this log to be direct evidence of Pentheus violating MP rules as a guildmaster. I just like how he criticizes his members for choosing to play a different char in the war, when he ages more on his alts than he does on his GM. Furthermore, I like how he tries to finagle guild diplomacy and politics by acting as a loose cannon on his alt. MPing to alter guild alliances when you're the GM of a warring guild is pure bullshit, and Tulkas agreed :)
//spoiler warning
Manni IS Pentheus.
//end spoiler
Maybe Manni got the post directly from Pentheus...
Wow that would be an awesome twist to this soap-opera!
Have I been demoted? :P
Well then i withdraw that part of my comment and will redirect it at the MUD. Nuking someone for something said on here is bullshit. That's like my school giving me detention for hitting some kid outside of school property and hours and crap.
Same. I got nuked for a comment here once ;)
actually the mud does punish people for what they do here. it has happened to me!
Well, first. There is no proof this post actually came from an MPing durm. I have seen a few BkD board posts (None of any value, just some misc stuff) directly from BkD members.
And I don't think this site is under the jurisdiction of the t2t admins and such - so reposting things here shouldn't be classed as an illegal action.
Leod - direct quote from this post 'If anyone has
information regarding a BKD alt of a durm, please notify me.' That is asking for alt information.
Now, overall, i honestly don't see why anyone should give a fuck. It's not like seeing eachothers board posts is going to win the war.
get over your 'OMG OMG HE'S MULTIPLAYING'. There is a lot of it going on in the game, and you only seem to care when it might benefit yourself.
Hahaha, I fucking love the drama you people are creating. In the end, does it really matter? Who gives a fuck? :P
Thats exactly right Pounder.
What Pentheus said was 'Notify me if you have information that someone in my guild MPs to spy for the enemy.'
Ah I helped you figure it out! Hmm, yeah, nuke both gm's! Reposting of another guild's board is MP btw. :)
And btw... what pentheus posted was not actual MP'ing but a violation of the rules related to MP'ing. What manni posted came directly as a result of someone multiplaying. Just figured I would throw that out.
I reread that fucking thing four times to find any mplay information. Good stuff Tyras.
Oh well. So both sides are snagged for mplaying *shrugs*
'If anyone has information regarding a BKD alt of a durm, please notify me.'
something like that pounder?
Shit my gramur sucks.
Actually, if they haven't changed the laws recently, it is illegal to transfer information between two characters. (commonly known quests and so on is not included in this because it is common knowledge). However, since Pentheus did not publicly STATE any known alts on this post, there is no illegalities. Furthermore, ainur have stated that it is now up to the people playing the different alts to keep them seperate and they are responsible for keeping their identities secret. They are responsible for anyone finding out and acting against them based on their alt information. I could be very wrong if they have changed this policy. The only possible way this is illegal would be if Pentheus had said please give me any alt information on X, Y or durms etc. This would be a public request for alt information. If I am correct man... thats just simply sad as hell.
I suspect Manni got this board post from Adoni!
<3 Tlaloc
Hazin you're funny too.
*pats Hazin on its head*
Nuke both guilds, have a happy Arda.
What do you mean MP? I paid 2 hugs and a carebear for this crap. I mean seriously, you can't say that I'm the only person who has paid some dishonorable member of a guild for a post or two?!
This would be cool if Pentheus himself had some super secret Durm alt. Unfortunately that's probably not the case. So hey, a war happened between two guilds with people who have alts in both, and they all (most) took a side and spied with one char for the other char. Something new? YES FIRST TIME EVER THIS HAPPENS OMG!! I don't get the fascination here. Guild A accuses guild B of using freelance side alts to help get eq or pk. So guild B comes back with guild A's GM taking preventive measures against guildmember alts of guild B spying. Is that supposed to be hypocritical or funny or what is it?
Well if Pentheus punish his members based on there alt's it should be considered MP. Or atleast that is how i always saw the rules. But Manni posting this, is also MP :) And also shows perfectely fine why Pentheus did post that board post.
You should point it out for our dumb selves, Tyras.
I'd say you make yourself look retarded by not being able to figure out what pentheus said in his post that is multiplaying =(
Exactly Atalash, it makes them look fucking retarded and proves our point.
I cant believe out of all these years you people still whine durms are a bunch of cheaters and mplayers, if a guild was built of that it would be removed and half the players nuked right?
P.S I'm the spy in BKD.. good luck finding me out you slut bags.
Like Pentheus already stated, gathering information from your alt in one guild to give to your other guild is... MULTIPLAYING. omgz. And that is clearly happening for Manni to have received this board post in the first place.
I fail to see what you call mplaying Tyras, point it out to us?
Actually Dalkar, Pentheus's post in his guild board does show multiplaying =(
Ergo: Last I heard, guild board access was Overlord+. That's not so many Ainur.
Goofy situation all around.
Just from a neutral perspective... Manni, your log title is a bit out of whack, don't you think? That simple board post shows absolutely no multiplaying whatsoever, unlike several law reports I know that have been submitted against a select number of your members, with logs containing proof attached.
Just pointing that out.
. I am most dissapointed in the inability to separate characters on the part of Bkd. and as much as people call Durmanhoth cheaters and multiplayers. They have shown 100% more ability to separate alt and characters than bkd. Not just revering to this log, but from my time spent in both guildhalls.
First off. To see Adoni write this is a fucking shame. I seriously mean this. I guess everything I said about you was right. You showed your true colors in being a degenerate dipshit. Hence why your alt is in it's current guild. You got true Durmanhoth colors man. Lastly, I would like to point out that in most of arda's huge wars. Alts that are in the guild from a wared guild usually get kicked. It's been going on since Ari was a gm. (Just stating a time frame here) Alas, anyone who has any clue what to do in a war on this game would do the same. Especially one that has been lasting as long as this.
I've only read the first 2 comments, and this is all I have to say to BkD:
Corpse of Adoni
We don't play favorites.
I might be out of date but most info from boards in wars usually comes from ainurs and not players. and I've yet seen a post in my days that I would actually give a rats ass about anyone else reading. Boards have never been a safe place to store extremly important information and probably never will be. I did however hear something about the removal of ainurs access to board and that my friend, would be a smart thing todo and any 3 year old could figure out but I'm not really expecting admins to think this way so it prolly never happened.
Yes, Hazin, I can.
Adoni, as I stated in the mail to you, your status was to be reevaluated at the conclusion of the war. You absolutely were gathering information for the benefit of your Durm. Against the advice of my council, I allowed you and the other members with known Durm alts to stay in the guild as shortbeards so your reputation would not be irreparably damaged. Even if your inquiries were innocent enough in reality, surely even you can see how it would look suspicious. I thought you would have the good sense to abstain from suspicious behaviour given your situation.
You are correct that there was no guild vote to determine your punishment because you were not in fact punished. You were temporarily removed from the hall as it strongly appeared that you were using the resources still available to you to take information from our hall to Durms. At the conclusion of the war, your status was to be reevaluated. I have to ask why you care whether you're a member of BKD presently - I know your activity, and I'm pretty sure you haven't left the hall since you lost your level 21. Were you really that attached to your 20 second per week logons to say hi?
Now, as this log obviously demonstrates, Durms have alts in BKD who are taking information from my hall and giving it to their primary guild. Manni accuses me of multiplaying for trying to restrict the ability of Durm typists... from... multiplaying? That's interesting.
It is regrettable that Durms have forced me to take action against their typists by their use of one character to the benefit of another. Their use of information gathered on their alts to harass my allies and my members, however, is simply unacceptable and I am obligated by my position to do what I can to alleviate the problem.
bah, sad things from both sides... I want old good times:(
You chose what guild mattered most to you. You logged in to dig up information with the alt that you dont care about in the war. You play for hours on one alt, go on pks, etc, but the other alt you check boards and head out. This is a long ass drug out dog fight that our two guilds are in. Pick a side that you like and save everybody the headache, complaining, and whining. If it was me that was king I would of just booted the bkd chars that have alts once the info was found out. But lucky for adoni I am not king! so he got the great pleasure of staying with us for another few days. 100 percent more ability to seperate chars? Let me know when your done with your crack pipe.
can pentheus really do that?
Maybe you're just really lame and they don't want you in their guild anymore. Even if they don't think you're lame... I do.
Might I also add, that there was no guild vote, no 'punishment to be desided' I simply was kicked out with once line mail saying there was concrete evidice of you leaking information and you lying to members.
This will be my last talk on this subject. I have no hard feelings toward bkd and wish to remain friends with many of the members. I will not rejoin. I feel that they have judged me based on irrational situations, my respect for bkd has decreased quit a bit. I am most dissapointed in the inability to separate characters on the part of Bkd. and as much as people call Durmanhoth cheaters and multiplayers. They have shown 100% more ability to separate alt and characters than bkd. Not just revering to this log, but from my time spent in both guildhalls.
After a 20 min conversation with Pentheus telling me I would not be removed from the guild. I was demoted to short beard without board access. this was not posted until after i was demoted so i had no way of 'multiplaying' and giving this post to Manni. However the 'concrete evidence' that got me kicked out as the source of the leak (which might i add. this log proves that i was not the leak) was me logging on seeing on the guild history something of the sort of us looking whip from the corpse of Tyras; I then asked what happend to whip? did we destory it? Next time i logged on, i was booted.