Personal C
A self-exemption isn't necessary, because I'm not part of the argument.
I once thought of creating a script I could spam at regular intervals which would check the entire who list, get legends on everyone who was online and keep track of how long they'd been online. Once they dropped off the who list it would continue to legend them in case they'd gone privacy etc. It was mainly to keep track of privacy people, but could have also been used to keep track of alts pretty handily. In the end I decided I couldn't be bothered and that most of the people who you'd generally want to know the alts of are almost incapable of not disclosing them anyways and so I never bothered. It was probably only a couple of hours worth of work to run it up. Also with the removal of privacy as it once was it was no longer necceesary.
He forgot the usual self-exemption. Oversight, or is the truth finally setting in?
It's true, this thread is pretty retarded
[new] Date: 14. Dec, 2007, 0:47:45 By: Pallasch
...
And 90% of you arguing here are morons.
Sooo pallaschish.
I agree there Manni, I also agree with Pallasch. I'm a moron... Sometimes:)
'Date: 13. Dec, 2007, 22:54:41 By: Darkhour
well, the t2t facebook group is typist oriented, not charater, so i think its ok to post it there, unless that violates some other rule im not thinking about, but plenty of people have multiple alts listed under their names, so i dont see a problem, anyways im the admin there, and i wont tell on ya ;)'
Jesus christ Darkhour, use capital letters and better fucking punctuation/spelling before writing here. 8 commas in one sentence? Where the fuck did you go to school?! Not even a single apostrophe.
And 90% of you arguing here are morons.
'this is why he cant protect the governor. he waited until we had attacked the gov to attack us. he didnt try to drive us from the room first, even though we sat there and told him that if he was going to, he needed to do it before we attacked if he wanted to claim RP. now, once you attack the gov, you are locked in that room, he waited for us to be locked in, then attacked. in my eyes, that equates to him attacking us in a lockup, and for all the time i was in koda, i never EVER saw anyone try to claim RP when attacking some one in a lockup. and in KoDA's defense, Bjurdur was with him, and he immediatly apologized and repremanded adenethel.'
You got a warning from me and from Bjurdur before you attacked Governor of linhir. We told you that we'r going to attack if you attack civilian of Linhir. I'm sorry i ruin your imagination that KoDA won't use logomania and won't straighten up what you said.
What's all the hatred about here? :P
Azhrarn, you're a fine PKer. Nobody's questioning that, though you keep bringing it up in the conversation. Fyng's a fine PKer too.
But in terms of being a good MUD citizen, I've got to say that there are negative aspects to each of your playing styles. Neither of you are saintly individuals and it's hard for either of you to claim the moral high ground on each other.
That being said, Azhrarn, you're trying to claim a moral high ground over everyone and everything with vague, nonsensical allegations that the vast majority of us have not even heard about. You log on once a week, get in profane yelling matches on the comm, attempt a few people, and log off. Perhaps you'd fare better by taking baby steps through the unprincipled lowcountry before attempting the incline up to mildly scrupulous plains before tackling arguments from the moral high ground.
well, the t2t facebook group is typist oriented, not charater, so i think its ok to post it there, unless that violates some other rule im not thinking about, but plenty of people have multiple alts listed under their names, so i dont see a problem, anyways im the admin there, and i wont tell on ya ;)
Yah, the storms typist has more ears , of durmanhoth members, on character necklaces then you guys have members. If I wasn't told it's illegal to post a typist kill count, I would show you how bad the storm owned your guilds face. I'm still working on getting around that though. *shrugs.
Hence why I think my nuke reason is bullshit. If it said varios mp violations ,revealing said alts names on comms and telling of various bugs certain players used on the comm,I wouldn't have a problem. But if you think for one second I'm going to sit around and let some pimple faced idiot call my mother a 'whore' and code urls about my rl. Then by all means nuke me.
hey, you know what 'the storm' reminds me of, that episode of aqua teen hunger force with shake's alter ego, 'the drizzle'
anyways who died and made you stephen colbert, bringer of truth my ass
Cause I'm not a trouble maker, or a whinner. Unless my blatant disregard to spread the truth about your guildmembers is whinning then I atest to that. Harasser? If its for repeatedly killing Gizmalin or his alts then alas I am also victim to harasser. If not, then nope. I'm just a bringer of truths.
and what makes you feel so innocent?
Oh but Kalmah!! Didn't you know?! I'm the trouble maker, whiner, and according to Mute and co the harrasser as well!!
Notorious killer? I got more noobs hanging from my jungle vines because of this lame logpage than I know what to do with. So I disagree on that aspect:)
the fyng has spoken
Just because I PK and dominate on all my characters, doesn't mean my characters are throwaway PK characters. It means I'm so good I need multiple outlets to express my ownar-ness. Get it right scrub.
On a serious note, all my characters are created for a purpose, all my characters have RP heavily (except for my latest one), and I've -never- suicided a character because of PK fines. Anyway, take care.
'i enjoy a good pk, and i love the drama he stirs up, since thats basically the only fun part left in the mud'
Oh, so basically the only fun you people get out of here is to fuck with everyone else and screw things up for them, huh? Not that it wasn't already obvious and I didn't know that. If this it the case just leave the MUD and find something better to do then.
Somewhere in that gargantuan first sentence, Darkhour made a good point.
'what else do you do once youve maxed out'
Be interesting to look at opinions on this. Depends how you look at the mud, I suppose. I generally look to chat around with friends and guildmates, and maybe chuck a little coin into guild coffers when I'm on and around. And maxed, of course. I don't honestly have the time or the inclination, as a typist, to sit around and max out character after character.. once I'm done with an hour or two's worth of questing and golding, that's it. I mean, if all you're doing with your life is sitting at a computer and maxing characters, you need to get a bit of a grip. Just my two cents on that, though.
sorry for double posting, but i really dont care if you dont like it, and i didnt see pents post till after my first one was posted
exactly pent, thats why nearly all of the warnings have been taken off, how about next time, we just get tulkas to warn both sides, soon everyone will have enough warnings that we will have atleast one wheel spin a boot, wouldnt that be fabulous, or you could concede. that works too
lucky, me and fyng(the typist) started off butting heads, but over the time we spent together in 2 completly seperate guilds a respect developed, and eventually trust and friendship. just because he enjoys pking doesnt mean he should be punished for it, i enjoy a good pk, and i love the drama he stirs up, since thats basically the only fun part left in the mud. and to call all of his characters throw away doesnt really do it justice, sure it might not difficult to max a character these days, but it isnt easy by any stretch, even if you have all the gold given to you, you still must earn exp, which is a time consuming process, and what else do you do once youve maxed out and the guild your in has everything, you really have 3 choices, start a new guild, which is frowned upon these days; help out a newbie, but when your a notorious killer, few newbies want to be around you; or start a new character. of course im leaving idle in your guild hall off the list because you dont need to be maxed to do that, and who wants to spree kill on their primary character.
'so i asked if i could law report bkd for attacking the alt of one of our members. because frankly, in an open war, anyone who bkd attacks should know to call a durm for help. yet without provocation, bkd attacks this person, they call durms for help, we come, and get law reported.'
Tyras and a Durm alt locked me on Tireless, and I called Azhrarn, who has been my friend since long, long before I was BKD (and for most of that time he was not one), he came and backed me up, and I got warned for MP. The warning got removed, but the principle of the matter is the same: Durms call whatever side they're on acceptable, and whatever side the other team is on MP.
'almost all of the law reports issued between bkd a durms could have been turned around, instead of giving a warning to durms for protecting some one, ask why bkd attacked them,'
And vice versa.
I idle in my gh mostly, Fyng, and the reason I don't use every second of my free-time to make new characters is because I have enough respect for the people around me and the MUD to actually build my characters into something more than an aimless, mindless, throwaway PK character like EVERY one of your characters is. I can think of only ONE of your characters that was actually barely worth more than just PK, but even he eventually suicided because of PK fines.
basically, we are lucky to have tulkas because is isnt a giant douche like rauko, sauron, and draug were, and secondly, almost all of the law reports issued between bkd a durms could have been turned around, instead of giving a warning to durms for protecting some one, ask why bkd attacked them,
I can't even bring myself to read most of Darkhour's comments... They honestly hurt to read
Hahahahaha. Oh my god, I so wish we were very lame in the begining. I mean there are logs posted of alts killing alts for the fucking war. It was done by both sides, to say one side did it and one side did not is fucking bogus.
Damn fucking straight Kalmah.
i think tulkas is doing a pretty decent job, he actually investigates each situation, when did draug ever do that. i remember one case where i got thrown into the void, draug comes in, and says, why did you do that, i say, why did i do what, i got nuked, they figured out it was some one else, and i got kept nuked because i was the original suspect. i dunno, but lets look at some of the previous powers, we get Rauko...tool, sauron...tool, draug...effective tool, and now we have tulkas, who isnt a tool, but very excitable. one case i can think of off hand, tulkas came down because we had protected one of our members alledged alts from a bkd attack. tulkas said he has 2 logs of us doing this, and threatened to warn us for MP if we did not stop. i simply asked if there was provocation behind the bkd attacks on this alledged alt, he couldnt provide any, so i asked if i could law report bkd for attacking the alt of one of our members. because frankly, in an open war, anyone who bkd attacks should know to call a durm for help. yet without provocation, bkd attacks this person, they call durms for help, we come, and get law reported.
i had to ask if i could law report them for attackin an alt, since they can law report us for protecting one, and honestly i think we have the better argument, because wouldnt you call your attackers enemies to come help protect you from them.
meh, its a fact there was a lot less cheating when Draug was PoL
why having user accounts wont work
1) i have 3 computers in my house
2) i have 3 different email accounts that i use regularly
3) you can mask your IP (i dont have a mask, but i could get one easily)
as for the whole getting tells and ims to switch characters
i do that, ill get an im from one of my ER friends to run a find, so ill log off, then log on my necro and sense, because the ER is friends with my necro, but knows my alt. so i do it to avoid some one saying that i was MP, and it makes me feel like im role playing in some demented way.
and pentehsu, what you said something about talking to draugluin, lets remember that draug was a tool, and the rules have changed since then
and therewas something earlier in the comments about KoDA and adanethel.
this is why he cant protect the governor. he waited until we had attacked the gov to attack us. he didnt try to drive us from the room first, even though we sat there and told him that if he was going to, he needed to do it before we attacked if he wanted to claim RP. now, once you attack the gov, you are locked in that room, he waited for us to be locked in, then attacked. in my eyes, that equates to him attacking us in a lockup, and for all the time i was in koda, i never EVER saw anyone try to claim RP when attacking some one in a lockup. and in KoDA's defense, Bjurdur was with him, and he immediatly apologized and repremanded adenethel.
and as far as KoDA protecting linhir...koda is supposed toprotect belfalas, linhir isnt in belfalas its in lebinin, not in the zone of roleplaying...deal with it.
I second that Pallasch, some of the shit they say is hilarious. Take Putin for prime example. *rotfl
I make grammar mistaked message!
I do that, I might login other characters to idle though.
When I had many alts I tried to follow a rule to only play one alt per reboot. I failed, of course, but I would appreciated if it was hardcoded.
Lucky, check the age on my alts, excuse me for taking the 18h you spent a week sitting in GH or dying in Tenzek to get to level 19. You're so bitter, its hilarious! It would seem you care a lot more about this place than I do :P
Sorry for multiposting, but I'm too lazy to take down comments, add to them, and repost.
'If you can't deal with it, make an alt. You have more than the right to. If that's too unfair for you, grow a sack and stop complaining about every little injustice that makes you slightly uncomfortable. How the hell do you people deal with shit IRL?'
It's not really fair to say 'You don't like how my style of play is affecting your style of play? Change your paradigm to my style and beat me by playing my game. If you want your style of play to be protected and feasible, you're a whiny bastard!'
'There are warnings given for everything because people are spamming law reports because warnings are given for everything.'
I think it's kind of ironic that Durms are the ones saying this ;) I'm not saying BKD doesn't do it at all, but... irony.
'As long as they're not logged on at the same time, who the hell cares if my alt gives an ESS to Mute and the ESS lands back in the armoury and I then know not to touch it?'
Pretty sure Durms would be mad if I had stocked BKD's armoury with Tireless, even if Pentheus never used any of it.
'Durm would lose roughly 5 people, I think. :) That's about par for the course in a power playing guild that size; certainly less than BkD.'
What do you mean with this comment, Manni?
'BkD doesnt have any active players to kick :('
Azrim and I are over 2d (and I was over 2d before I killed off any of my chars, or decided to do so.)
'No, I believe that was Azer's policy. Which i didn't see quite the asshole in anyone but him.'
This translates to 'I want Pentheus to kill me in the guildhall before he suicides.'
I haven't read all the new comments yet, but before I finish, 'Logging in a character because your friend tells you that some assclown is in BD on MSN is not a crime.'
I actually asked Draugluin about this a year or so ago, and basically he said that it was against the rules, but virtually impossible to prove. He said the only way to catch and punish people doing it was for them to admit to it on towers.
Now, that being said, it appears that the current administration does not share Draugluin's opinion. But I just wanted to throw it out there that it's not exactly a given that it's not against the rules.
I think it's hilarious the lengths people will go to in an effort to defend the things they and their friends do. The justifications some of you use are flat out amazing.
summarizing, bkd is an asshole guild and durms are a guild full of ignorant hypocrites. respect for manni and all but seriously, the idiocy has to be recognized and stopped eventually.
I also want to translate Fyng's comment:
If you aren't a sorry loser who can spend his entire life levelling throw-away characters that can make life miserable for people, don't bother playing the MUD.
No, I believe that was Azer's policy. Which i didn't see quite the asshole in anyone but him. (inside looking in of course) But I mean even as far as me. How have I been an asshole to you or the rest of arda? Hell Ive even returned your guild weap to you on more than one occasion. So please enlighten me.
BkD giving a collective 'Fuck You!' to the rest of the MUD isn't a strong example of BkD being assholes? It's been BkD guild policy to be assholes for the past 5 years.
Im confused.. are these examples of people from BKD being assholes? Not a strong argument if it is....
Date: 25. Sep, 2007, 17:45:16 By: Manni
Balzamon told me like 2 weeks ago that Mordor is treated like the rest of Arda.
Date: 25. Sep, 2007, 18:14:26 By: Shardik
I'd like to take this opportunity to quote Duke Nukem:
Hail to the King, baby.
It's good to be King.
Nor do we have assholes that need to be kicked.
BkD doesnt have any active players to kick :(
That's what I told myself, Estaban...and then I realized that I don't have a car and I'm stuck at my brother's house for 3 days :P
33 new comments? oh damn, i refuse to read :(
Manni, if the Durmanhoth lost these 5 people, I'd kiss the statue of Mutalator if you still have it!
Not when its your active players that would get kicked?
I swear Putin's normal when I talk to him.
Durm would lose roughly 5 people, I think. :) That's about par for the course in a power playing guild that size; certainly less than BkD.
I didn't read much of that, but I am pretty sure Putin is on par with Azhrarn in the insane category.
Along with half your guild Manni
You'd have nobody to play with because you'd be banned, Adanethel...
Perhaps they can't Manni, but did I ever have an interesting conversation with Huarmurath yesterday. He certainly knew my IP somehow. Apparently he could see my address.
Anyways if you're jumping from alt to alt or logging in to run into BD to PK someone, you need to get a fucking life. Not have something coded to stop you from doing it.
Then there will be noone to play with
I second that, Jakar.
Get rid of all the fucking shit-heads we have first, thanks.
We don't need more immortals. Everyone shouldn't immort. The MUD is good as it is, there are a lot of old projects ready to be implemented too. Let's first get more players, then we will have quality players, not 'jerks and lamas' and then some quality players will become quality immortals!
Yeah, but I think fixing maiar access is a lower priority than implementing a lot of the backlogged petition stuff. There arent enough coders and giving more disincentive to become a coder is not going to attract more immortals.
FDL, the kid with 5 PKing alts that lives through an on-line game is making references to how we deal with real-life. Simply stupifying.
Maiar shouldn't have any privileges at all but access to code so they can learn. They don't need access to personal info to become better coders and do better debugging.
meh, without the time stamping its easy even to match alts. They should remove the 'announce all' or whatever it is option for ainur, and allow them to only see the logon of mutual friends and other ainur.
Maiar can't see IPs -- OLs can match IPs but can't actually see them from what I understand. Powers can see IPs.
What maiar can see is who logs off and on as they log in and out. So say I log off Manni and immediately log on Coolguylol. Any maia can see the close discrepency in logoff/in times. If I'm just checking mail on Coolguylol (he gets a lot of mail, popular with the ladies), then log back in Manni, the maia can timestamp lines to see:
[Manni has left The Two Towers] 00:01:00
[Coolguylol has entered The Two Towers] 00:01:03
[Coolguylol has left The Two Towers] 00:02:05
[Manni has entered The Two Towers] 00:02:08
So thats what I mean about waiting a few minutes when you switch characters. You can imagine how easy it would be to script logins into a variable with the timestamp and search for cases that have repeated matches within 1 minute or so.
Good thought, Manni, if only more that 10 people had the honour and, most important, self control to do this!
I really don't think player accounts would work.
Anyway, what everyone did in the past was they ignored when people used one character to help friends who also happen to be friends of another character. Now this qualifies as multiplaying and gets into all sorts of tenuous realms to the point where if you have an alt, you can get a warning for partying with your other character's guildmates. It's ridiculous. There are warnings given for everything because people are spamming law reports because warnings are given for everything. It's a cycle that needs to stop. There should simply be a redefining of MP rules to make them more lenient. People complain that things are illegal (no longer talking about this log) but only because warnings are given out for this. Treat each character as an enemy on their own merits, not as alts of the same person and all this shit goes away. As long as they're not logged on at the same time, who the hell cares if my alt gives an ESS to Mute and the ESS lands back in the armoury and I then know not to touch it?
I thought about this thing with 5 mins between chars - won't work. Otherwise it seemed a good idea at first. But imagine how ridiculous it would be to the people who will one day start mudding and who won't cheat. Or to the people who want to sell the equipment of different characters before reboot (just an example, there are many other bugs). Such little restrictions added up and contributed to the low activity we have now. Coded restrictions only clear the way to abuse.
What we need is a stricter and more personal law enforcement. (Not the strictest possible, it would drive people off as well).
Now, Manni, you said something very key! I certainly agree the powers of the maiar should be restricted. They shouldn't be able to snoop people and follow IPs. Most of the maiar are merely players with an immortal alt and many of them abuse their abilities. If they have proven they have the discipline and energy to be a part of the administration in Valinor - well maybe they would abuse less. But a simple maia getting access to your charinfo??? I have a lot of friends who got their alts revealed thisway, some of them friends of you too.
I don't know if they still have access to people's bank balance too but it is ridiculous.
You are allowed to have as many characters as you want on this game. Some people invest more time and energy than others to create many more characters with different alliances, morals, drawbacks, and advantages, than other typists. That is their perogative. There is no great equilizer, its reality. People are allowed to play their characters however they want, as long as they follow the rules. Logging in a character because your friend tells you that some assclown is in BD on MSN is not a crime. It is a side-effect convience of spending the extra hours and gold to level an alt that can act in accordance with the situation. If you can't deal with it, make an alt. You have more than the right to. If that's too unfair for you, grow a sack and stop complaining about every little injustice that makes you slightly uncomfortable. How the hell do you people deal with shit IRL? Fetus position featuring the whine-for-momma? MAN UP.
I'm not sure how would be best to solve the alt jumping thing. I can see abuses of any solution, and I can see legit activities being eliminated by them.
With regards to the player accounts, though, I don't think Manni's objection is very good (with all due respect): If someone was claiming chars were owned by sibs/roomates/pets/etc, it seems to me that that would be a defense of having multiple chars online at once, but not a great number of people do that. I think if it were nukable to lie about chars to get multiple accounts it would not happen very much (especially if Valinor prosecuted it - in the same way they currently prosecute if 2 chars with 1 typist are on simultaneously now.)
Why must you always get so hostile by a simple remark? Lets hold hands and talk about it? :) Make that a date in a few hours though, I have to write a three hour final :(
I believe that evils shouldn't hunt when defending Mordor in RP, just as VC would never hunt in RP in Lothlorien.
As far as switching characters to attack, there was a thread about this on the t2tmud.org forums a few months ago... Here's what I said back then when people brought up a few ideas about user accounts and login wait times:
A 5 minute login wait is not feasible. Most people who care enough to keep their alts secret do wait several minutes between logging off one character and on to another because any immortal can see who logs on and off as it happens. And while I trust the Powers and Council, I'm pretty sure nobody should trust the newbie Maiar with alt info.
A more feasible suggestion might be that you can't attack or handcuff anyone within 5 minutes of signing online, in Mordor or outside Mordor.
Edit: I forgot to include why I don't think a hard coded wait between logging off and logging on is feasible... It's too easy to squeeze around the truth when creating accounts. It's easy to say that all of your characters belong to roommates, siblings, parents, pets, etc and then you'd get less scrutiny than someone who was being honest past that initial point where you create 2 accounts for different sets of characters. Also waiting 5 minutes to log on is just a pain in the butt. Sometimes you have limited time irl and you just want to breeze through and check mail/board updates on your characters. It's a task that takes 5 minutes now and it would take 20 minutes under the 5 minute login wait.
Extreme solution: You can't log on from the same ip on another char than the one you were just online with, until an hour has passed. Ie: no altjumping until that hour has passed! :p
Easy solution: Stop being lame :(
Manni, how was Adanethel's defense of governor any worse than the whole protect-Mordor-bullshit that evils has done for years? Only difference is that Adanethel got reported for four attempts.
Its simple. Make it so you need like 10 minutes before being able to log on a different alt.
meh, there should just be a 5-10m buffer between when you can switch characters.
I think we mercifulled like 2 people and then decided we'd stop. Adanethel is a moron and was using KoDA's good name in RP to masquerade his PK attempt. He can't do that. But I don't see his actions as something that KoDA supports. Obviously if KoDA wants to adopt a guild policy of hiding behind RP to make PK attempts, we'd be more than willing to turn merciful off.
Azoroth, you dont get my point, idiots like you are the reason your new members die. Instead of keeping your huge mouth open you should sit and be quiet.
Just to get the facts straight, Welsh is the only one to die, and he died once in a failed lock up. And I'm pretty sure Deathmatch died already from getting himself run over MT glass.
The KoDA did die before you, Putin. Imagine, things exist outside of your attention too *gasp*!
Why don't you petition to bring it back, with the caveat that you can't attack while it's on or for five minutes afterward? Everyone would be happy except the people who were abusing it in the first place.
...oh, wait. Nm.
Followup:
People kill on their alts within 1 minute online, because you SMARTASSES petitioned to have the privacy removed.
kthnxbye
Whats wrong with that?
I can't put it more simple than this way:
IF you think you are something GREAT, expect getting killed.
Should you just walk and quest and not harm anyone - nobody will have a reason to kill you.
-->little inline:
If you are a member of a guild and your guildmaster is an idiot and likes to pkill and have fun, or you have 5 guildmates that are pk horny, expect to get burned for their sakes.
Examples:
Look at KODA, they were peaceful and quiet last few years and nobody died (unless mordor ofcourse). They allowed one of their members - Adanethel who is we all know who, and then few of them died.
Generally, dont make enemies or dont be a part of a community that has enemies and you wont get attacked.
Its the same thing as when privacy was in the game, which shouldn't have been removed. You want to do something dangerous? Play carefully. End o' story lad!
Just don't do anything, then no one can copy you!
Plus its kind of bullshit when you check the who list and no enemies are on, then you go into BD to do some questing and what do you know, suddenly 2 players have logged off their characters and onto their assassins and immediately attempt you. It's fucking lame and it's ruining playability completely.
Yeah, its a shame when people have known about and used things for years and then some noobs show up, find it, and then exploit it cause they need to get an edge and then it gets nerfed/changed.
Manni, that comment reminds me about the whip when it was first discovered, I believe Aiglos had a similar effect though it was shorter.
trigger surprise todo do n,w,s,e,3ambush patrol
I do agree that this violates the basic MUDing principle: 'When you find something unbalanced, don't tell anyone more than the 2 closest people you trust and for God's fucking sake don't use it in a PK and post the log of it'.
I was getting at people having 5 different alts depending on who they wanna PK in that instant in time, logging in and using a frickin torch and not even having the courtesy to stay logged on for more than 5 minutes after the fact.
Not sure what's wrong with IMing a friend to tell them a mutual enemy is on, then having them log on to kill that enemy.
If they did finds on you using their alt, they'll get warned for it. What more do you want?
No but the donations of most people should!
So your donations should get those who you don't like nuked? :P
I love when guys logged on for 2 minutes participate in PKs, my donations hard at work.
And I know I forgot to grab flag.