Nothing too great, just posted for bored people. Spam was so I didn't hit any of the fair elves of lothlorien.
meh, they'll just hijack another thread now :/
I agree! Thread locked!
Not for him. But for you and your group, possibly!
Hoshkebosh, do you realize that wouldn't be the end of the world!?
04. Feb, 2008 By: Nalthic Type: Player Kill Title: Klardin Rating: 4.5
150 comments (unread)
god damn lock the fucking thread.
Isn't stubbornness one of the major traits of dwarves?
By: Delkin
'BkD has compromised its theme by allowing in non-dwarves and shattering the ideals it once stood for.
This war cannot end at the moment because of Balzamon's pride. Balzamon is alienating the true role-players of his guild by not surrendering. People such as Mongwen cannot explore the game and share their RP...how could we let them? They would quest equipment and provide gold for BkD's power-playing killers. The Durmanhoth is in a position where a surrender is the only foreseeable means by which lasting peace can be ensured.'
How can anyone claim to know anything about BkD's theme or Tolkien's dwarves in general if they want them to surrender? We'd 'compromise our theme' and 'shatter the ideals' if we ever did. What would we tell to 'people such as Mongwen'? 'You love our theme and you joined to enjoy the RP, so we're screwing it over just for you!'.
There will be no surrendering under the Lonely Mountain. Ever.
Erest, that's ruining the game, not teaching people. Depending on questinfo and killing the spirit of exploring. What the Durmanhoth has produced in the last months is ridiculous - golding bots and power-hungry knaves. This is a RP MUD, where people come to feel the reality of Arda and take part in the war of the ring about which they have read in the books.
The result of your 'teachings' is people who gold in Linhir and can't revive in Edoras. And who maybe think that Tolkien was the producer of the LotR movie.
For those saying all of Durmanhoth are spreekillers and or newbiekillers
In my time playing ive helped more newbies grow into decent if not good players
I dont teach PK cause i dont play this game for that
Yes. In the last couple years RP turned into WHO HAS THE BIGGEST ...
and who can kill who
Those that really RP i respect Some time. Watch Mute youll see this guy going out of his way to help some younger player either it be to get them a cool weapon they've never used which makes the game interesting to them or just simply teaching them golding and sometimes like in alvador's case leading him in places and parties getting stuff along the way
Alvador is very new to the game but has shown improvement
Fes is very new too he has been my apprentice and has done very well
Though anytime yall see this guy out and about you kill him or attempt him So look at this game differently and dont let your personal RL problems turn into rage on the mud turn into a man and face those that anger you and talk it out
This game should be more about helping each other enjoy the game and teaching what you know to them not killing cause of something that cant for some reason not be reasonably talked out
Flare: 'It is sad, Formid, that you haven't moved an itch in your ability to play the game for the 10 years you are proud you have played this game.'
By whose standards? I assume by 'your' standards, which is basically PK only, for the first 7-8 years I played this game (longer probably) I didn't touch the PK side of the mud at all basically save for helping the odd guildmate. I've learned a lot of the game, I taught myself how to PK (to an extent) without using someone elses robbed client, I've spent a year in Valinor helping to create the game. Hell even when it comes to powerplaying I've filled guild armouries in 2-3 hours solo. I've broken some of the best PKers in the game when they were using the best EQ. I don't think I've done too badly.
Tarquin, do you realize that a very small group of people is the only thing from having the entire town hardbanned?
Rommel had style.
Etrius, I'm gonna skin you and throw your skin to the dogs in the ghetto to make the merchandise. Manni does have style and he shouldn't waste it on Durmanhoth. That name is an abomination. Hitler's generals also had style.
Well, they are - Valacirca is the only one that can rival them with regards to size or integrity (integrity here refers to the absence of factioning, not the moral definition), and while I think VC has more staying power, they're not as big or as active right now. If you look at them internally Durmanhoth is the most successful guild presently.
If you look at it macroscopically, there is a distinction between Durms and the rest of the mud. That is, RoI has more in common with BKD or pretty much anyone else than with Durms. This is true of virtually any guild in the game. So it could also be looked at as Durmanhoth as a community versus non-Durmanhoth as a community, in which Durmanhoth isn't winning any more.
It's just a matter of perspective, and theirs does have some merit (much as it pains me to say)
'I'd say that, overall, they're probably the best community in the game right now.'
You're joking, right?
Me too, Pallasch. I guess we'll never be as old skool as the people who supposedly started played before the books were written. Boo hoo.
I don't like a few of the people in the new Durmanhoth, and I've never been a huge fan of the whole 'ghetto' mentality, but you can't deny that Manni's got style. The new Durmanhoth is Arda's greatest, and possibly only, post-dev22 guild success story. He chose to invest in newbies, something which many of the old, stagnant elitist guilds refused to do, and it was a strategy which reaped dividends for his organization. I'd say that, overall, they're probably the best community in the game right now. Like it or lump it.
*hands out 'I love Manni' merchandise*
I talked to Hirgail and Ulfanil, who both told me that the feeling at FRA was that there was no reason to fight over this.
herk is not ALL soft banned. certain ppl can make alts. certain ip addresses can make new alts. like mine, brandons, and perrotas
Manni, an issue has not been 'dealt with and dismissed' unless both parties agree it has been. Just because you say it has doesn't make it so.
Pablo, as far as FRA goes, it was one attempt. Booting someone and making them start a complete new character who's not allowed to be an assassin is a pretty harsh punishment, at least in my opinion. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes with this. Khaos is tainted as a character, but as a typist, I really do think it was just a misunderstanding. Getting all riled up about this would be unnecessarily prolonging a conflict that has already been dealt with and dismissed.
Fyng also has a 1 alt ban..... Fyng is one alt, lucky he hasn't made a new one right! :)
Btw if said person has a new alt in durms law report him. All herkimar is soft banned from creating alts.
He'll be nuked.
Btw Pablo if fra need anything, gold, equipment a hand just ask. Not that you guys need it but my hands are open.
so uh whats this bullshit about booting someone who started shit with fra and then immediately levelling an alt of his to put in the guild. if you're just blatantly trying to call me and any other members fucktards by trying to make us believe that you did any punishment to him at all, then you should just go on and say it. as far as i'm concerned giving him a fresh maxxed char is like saying 'congratulations! next time don't die or get caught.'
It is sad, Formid, that you haven't moved an itch in your ability to play the game for the 10 years you are proud you have played this game.
'Yes Flare, we can't all get nuked an inexplicably start spreeing guilds on our alts.'
But you can keep dying like newbies.
Delkin is making me laugh, someone please check if he's psychically healthy.
The whole guild is off limits, you can't be even invited.
We do invite a lot of people to the guildhall -- applicants, friends, from time to time there are alts with invites if they ask. But using equipment is a different scenario and I don't think it's happened since maybe a few weeks into this war back in September. I think I remember something with either Fyng or a Herkimer guy getting the MELS handed to their non-guilded alt for PKing. Before the incident, we were under the impression that only gear your alt had expressly touched was off limits. After the incident we learned that Tulkas's interpretation is that all armoury gear is off limits to alts. And it has been since.
Dude there's logs up of people dying for attacking us with their alts. *rolls*
'The fact that character A spree kills, unendorsed by a guild and unaided by character B's guild membership, should not lead to punishment of character B's guild.'
I have seen at least two of Delkin's alts (on which he was harassing and spreekilling newbies, as is his wont... check out his QI site and read the logs section if you don't believe me) using the Durm guildshop (with invitation), using the durm guildhall, and ostensibly using equipment from the armoury. I can't say which two because both are active at the moment. Durmanhoth has probably changed their policy regarding letting their alts use their guildhall - probably because I got logs of it happening and reported it to Tulkas, and Tulkas told them he was watching - but to say that Durmanhoth hasn't supported this kind of behaviour in the past is rewriting history.
If Pentheus were still around I could capture the attitude very well from a comment by Delkin's alt. Its gist was something like 'Azkur's alt and I are Durm alts and we use the durm guildhall. Without MP rules, nothing's going to stop us.'
Now, let me be painfully explicit here: I am not saying Durmanhoth is conducting themselves this way presently. You may have changed. With Manni in power that seems likely. However, saying that how it is now is how it's always been is absolutely incorrect.
Daeman is a full fledged member of our brotherhood and Captain of Erebor and as a council member a strong leader of the guild. Skyman is a visitor due to his past friendships with our mountain and his mutual goals for the time being. A lasting peace can be accomplished and it can be done without a surrender. A guild war that has lasted this long and neither side is beaten anywhere near to a surrender so if we are to talk peace now then it needs to be as equals. As ive said many times before I am alway willing to discuss. Im done responding here. Send a tell over the mud so the rest of the playerbase doesnt have to listen to us bicker at each other.
Do I like it when people go spreeing on alts? Nah, not really. It generally makes me a little nervous that it'll come back to bite us. All I can do is say that because of the MP rules, they should not be getting help from Durmanhoth in making those kills. They'd be getting gear by themselves for use in those PKs and would not be making those kills in order for a Durmanhoth advantage. That's the best I can do.
People are going to play however it is that they like to play. PKers will PK on one character or another. By offering them a guild where we don't take unprovoked aggression on other guilds, I'd like to think that their overall PKing does decline slightly. The fact that character A spree kills, unendorsed by a guild and unaided by character B's guild membership, should not lead to punishment of character B's guild.
In that post I never stated anything about durms. I said she wasn't active bc of durm alts before the war started. I'm saying she suffered in the past from durm alts, nothing more. Yes war sucks for everyone involved. Both sides suffer losses and yes it is the Mongwen's, Rizzo's, Anvik's and Erest's of both sides that feel it the most. Does it sadden me that they can't get the full RP that both guilds have to offer? of course it does. But BKD will not back down. That is in our history and in our blood. We will not stop.
Are you sure you respect her? I saved this from before you closed down your log section in your durmpage to members only:
'The fucking slut dies. Pretend to be Female, blind and stuff? Hah, pathetic:
http://t2tmud.info/dwlogs/mongwen.html'
Posted by the character Jared, a durm at the time.
That was really disturbing, how you can even accept a guy acting like that in your guild is beyond me.
Of course it will Manni. But the simple fact is war is never over with BKD. There is always some durm alt that is after us just waiting for the right time to stab us in the face. Ive learned this through the time that I have been in BKD. I know you aren't too blind to see it. You just say they are alts, not members so it isn't my problem. Not doing something about it is condoning their behaviors.
The last four posts probably aren't going to end in anything constructive... While there are absolutely members in each guild who want the war and members who don't, I do think both guilds will be better off when the war has concluded.
And you say she doesn't even know why we are at war when half of the newer people that are in your guild find out about the war after they have been victim of PK themselves.. Making a strong argument there man.
'a little something from one of our boards'
She wasn't active when the war started bc of durm alts level bashing her. So she didn't get the full jyst of the war. However, She knows the types of players durms can be and has personally suffered from it in the past.
'I'm utterly sick of this war and don't even remember why we're fighting. However, Mahal will forget how to craft things before I support surrendering to the bunch of honorless dogs that is Durmanhoth.'
-Mongwen
See? She doesn't know what she's fighting for and she doesn't want to fight. How can you carry on a war with the Durmanhoth, who have historically been the heartless butchers of men, and claim that you are supporting her interests. The writing isn't even on the wall here...it's straight up on your own boards.
Delkin, how in the hell do you know what Mongwen wants? Do you even know her? Didn't think so. Here is a little something from one of our boards posted by Mongwen herself.
'I'm utterly sick of this war and don't even remember why we're fighting. However, Mahal will forget how to craft things before I support surrendering to the bunch of honorless dogs that is Durmanhoth.'
Tevildo, this is simply not possible. BkD is, for a lack of a better word, harboring characters who exist for the sole purpose of killing Durmanhoth. By doing so, they are putting those in the guild who believe in the theme 'on the back shelf'. In other words, they are replacing their role-players with power-players and player-killers. How can we make truce with a faction which has back-stabbed us at every turn? BkD has compromised its theme by allowing in non-dwarves and shattering the ideals it once stood for.
This war cannot end at the moment because of Balzamon's pride. Balzamon is alienating the true role-players of his guild by not surrendering. People such as Mongwen cannot explore the game and share their RP...how could we let them? They would quest equipment and provide gold for BkD's power-playing killers. The Durmanhoth is in a position where a surrender is the only foreseeable means by which lasting peace can be ensured.
From what I have gathered, BkD wishes to 'see eye-to-eye' (Reorx). We have surrendered to BkD in the past to answer for our sins and mistakes. How can we possibly see eye-to-eye without the same? A surrender is not horrible. It is simply a means of saying, 'look, we were wrong and we publicly acknowledge it'. The fact that Balzamon will not do such is not guild pride, but simply hubris.
I think it would be akward for both sides to have people competing getting gear for their assassins to kill the other side, but having impunity from being PKed. I'm not as concerned with the logistics of saying 'OK, I'll boot you if you attack BkD' as I am with ending the war prematurely and having BkD bouncing back to attack us in 2 weeks when they return to their September levels of activity.
Here's a suggestion. GMs, limit the war while you're discussing acceptable terms of ceasefire, so tempers and hyperbole won't continue to disrupt the process. Poll the members of your guilds to see who wishes to continue attacking (or will continue, regardless of other factors). Provide these lists to each other, and remove all others from your respective hitlists. If someone not on the list makes a kill, or a person kills someone not on the list, boot them. If either side doesn't boot an offender, they lose their honor; if either list reaches zero, shake hands and call it over.
What GM would you be if you stated that you think your guild is a bad one? :P
Azer killed 2 durms in mordor which violated what Manni and I agreed to. Rellik quickly led a bang of durms against Cyric (who was not involved in the mordor kills or hitlisted) also violating our treaty outside of mordor. Thus explosion to war instigated by bkd and encouraged by durmanhoth with complete disregard for the treaty by both guilds. And what Manni and I wrote was supposed to be simple for both guilds to follow but it seems aggression on both sides wasnt over yet. So this stance of your requiring a surrender by us is hogwash. I am more then willing to apologize for bkd aggression because frankly it is not how bkd should operate. I like to think of us as a hammer. A hammer that strikes back hard when provoked but our roles as the aggressors in arda is over. 'Bkd to its roots' I am talking about a more thematic bkd where we do not kill the morals around the areas that we so adamently defend. Thrans, Esgaroth, Dale, Loth, Rivendell, and Erebor all areas fighting the same evil that is at Erebor or Khazad-Dum. Bkd from its inception has been home to prolific powerplayers and interesting roleplayers. And has usually been a healthy mix of the two counterbalancing each other well. We have a slow steady climb to completely neutral and now we will return to some of our older roots over time as well. Our current stance is not to 'beat Durmanhoth to oblivion' since that should not be the goal of any guild but at the same time we are not going to 'unconditionally surrender' to any guild either. If that is trully the ONLY goal of the current durmanhoth then we have a war that will never end. My door is always open though and Im willing to discuss lasting peace but in the mean time the BKD war machine rolls on.
Think of the poor moderator, I had to reach 100 comments of bitching in my lunch break :(
I know it often looks like I'm just spouting off propaganda, and frankly there are times that it's necessary to turn the conversation away from a few negative examples of mistakes that have been made. This thread is not one of those cases.
This thread has seen strings of vague nonsensical attacks on Durmanhoth's character by the people warring us. I didn't even see the thread until 60 comments in. I'd be an awful GM if I didn't respond and state my case that I think we're a good guild. In my responses, I've given my honest opinions about my guild, the war, a few members, past errors, and future plans. Dishonesty and deception are not long-term beneficial traits in a GM or a guild as a whole. Looking back to things I've said on this forum and on the MUD, I have been as honest as I can with what I say. In this thread, I think Delkin has spoken well for the guild with some pretty good, honest defenses.
I've only played for 9 years :(
Did I say anything to Pounder, Tlaloc, and yourself? Did I target you? No, I targeted the bullshit propaganda bulldozers Delkin and Manni. I do put my self in an exclusive group because I am in an exclusive group and always will be. I also beg the differ Rhoads:) If deaths were reversed shit would be awhole lot better.
Heya Daeman,
There is no such a thing as 'earning right to run your mouth', no one has earned it and no one ever will. Trash talking is trash talking no matter how long you have been here. :) This, of course, goes to everyone here.
Peace man.
Rhoads.
You ran your mouth a fair amount in this thread (go back and read all your comments). There are at least 5 posters (probably more) in this thread who have been here 10 years or more, just from a very quick scan Pounder, Manni and myself and I think Tlaloc has been here that long as well (hard to keep track since he's changed names a few times). So it's not like you're in your own little exclusive 'I've been here for 10 years' club.
Manni and Pounder were old hats at the game when I first joined (a couple of weeks after Jad).
I have a right to do whatever the fuck I want. I've earned it in the past 10years. Then again, I'm not dishing cracks out on anyones rl. I'm stating facts. Thats not running ones mouth.
From what I see the only person running his mouth a lot here is you Daeman, well you and Delkin.
That tends to happen when you kill someones typist 50times in his mud life.
He still runs his mouth plenty to me, as a matter of fact more so than before. I fail to see how you guys think he has changed. I guess he just doesn't like Orcoron or I.
Just thought I'd say Hi!
Yes Flare, we can't all get nuked an inexplicably start spreeing guilds on our alts.
By: Tlaloc
No, Pentheus, you missed the whole point of the conversation. It is: I hated durms in 2000 and I hate durms in 2008. Simple as that. Stalin would say: There is a Durmanhoth, there is a problem. No Durmanhoth - no problem!
So the point of this war is that people still think this way. If the war ended today, Tlaloc would still be thinking this way, BkD would have the capacity for a resurgence while maintaining this attitude, and we'd be back to the situation we had in early September when all this started.
On the Khaos issue, I'm not throwing him under the bus as a person, Tlaloc. What happened was unfortunate. Khaos misunderstood our rules about killing people and worked himself onto five or six hitlists within about a week. Some were while he was a member and some were before. It was a mistake and a misunderstanding, but realistically we just can't have that shitstorm going on, especially while we're in a war. Too many alts like Aginor try to capitalize and saber-rattle and try to extend the war to other guilds. So Khaos made a mistake and it caused some headaches, but we're still friends and as a non-assassin I'm confident he will continue to be a great guildmate.
You all newbies. Durmanhoth is doomed, and you know it well. You've known it for a few days now.
Exhalev is quoted as saying the following:
Tlaloc, I am confused. I do not know whether to feel pity for either your transparent hypocrisy, or your embarrassing insecurities. I believe it will be easier to continue both enjoying not caring, as well as the moderate challenge you present to me on the MUD.
Concerning my guild: Everyone is so happy to volley unsubstantiated claims and hatred at us, but when it boils down to the end of the day, the people that matter on this MUD appreciate us. These people are the newer players, or older less experienced players, that we help everyday. I apologize for any misconceptions you have - I don't blame you. But don't smack it until you try it.
As the most powerful guild, you're going to be a target or a lot of jealousy, hate, idiocy - we're prepared for it. But do yourselves a favour, and shake your heads.
I would like Tlaloc to define, 'sucking up to Exhalev'. If this is the act of thanking me for hours of personal lessons, or an act of random kindness, or plain conversation, than I think you need to try and hone a less than derisive vocabulary.
In the end, this is just a game, and I think it would be a lot healthier for everyone to just enjoy it as such. Stop getting so bogged down in personal animosity, or weak style of victimizing people you are unable to deal with in the sphere of the game itself. Take a deep breath, remember we're all here to enjoy this place together. Take care.
I didn't provide enough context for this quote, so I wanted to clarify:
'People like Sean gently guided him basically in how to do what he already did, but better, as opposed to identifying destructive habits and curtailing them.'
I was primarily referring to gameplay behaviours. With regards to maturity, Khaos has had a lot of the same effects as one gets from being beat the shit out of (Please note that anyone who knew him before he met Fyng is absolutely forced to agree that he talks exponentially less shit now than he did then. As his first char, there is no way he would be able to earn someone like Tlaloc sticking up for him in any way.) I put much of this development down to Fyng. Many people overlook this positive contribution.
I didn't really think of the above aspect of the comment when I posted it; I was pretty much just thinking about Khaos' target selection and PKing style which is absolutely that of a serious PKer.
interesting.
Ah fucking shit my bad, lol, I guess it has been a little longer and it was more like umm 10+ years of the durms I was talking about. :) Just add 2 years onto anything I say in terms of years because I haven't done shit in 2 years on a regular basis but then again my memory of the game is failing into a stage of nice memories.
94
Just helping it out Orcoron.
93
92
Am I a decent person in Durmanhoth Tlaloc?
Are we all mudding with the same guy here?
And also.. that's just pretty sad.
I'm pretty sure the person he killed would be in that 10% of yours.
Well, Orcoron we all know you can joke with people's feelings pretty good:P
Yeah, noone is perfect but really, everyone tries to kill Khaos. One of his friends kills someone and everyone blames him when he hasn't even been in the room. Etna erupts and everyone thinks he caused it. What does he have to be to stand all this? A saint?
PS on idlekilling:
I'd happily idlekill 90% of the mud population over and over again. They don't deserve anything better.
Oh and Tlaloc...during that whole battlepoint period. The extent to which I showed him how good I was was to break his constant attempts on me and then laugh at him for it. The instigation for those attempts was him being too dumbfuck to realise '%I'm a riot ER! %:overturns a car.' was me joking. Actually during pretty much that entire period I just did my own thing and left other people to fuck around with all that crap.
He's also a massive hypocrite. He's Mr Moralhighground now. But..
1: I've been idle killed by him and a couple of other Durms in MT - I did not whine about it like he did when he got DC during HIS ATTEMPT ON ME and died. Oh, I'll post the log of that. Do you think he would have stopped attacking if I hadn't come back to the screen and ran?
2: Has the audacity to call me low when he has been involved in countless random kills on people. He's killed dozens of level 5s or otherwise clueless dipshits because 'I thought I could kill them so I did'
3: No matter how many fucking times I've pointed it out he still doesn't understand the difference between your and you're.
Ok that last one wasn't really hypocritical, just dumb.
No, Pentheus, you missed the whole point of the conversation. It is: I hated durms in 2000 and I hate durms in 2008. Simple as that. Stalin would say: There is a Durmanhoth, there is a problem. No Durmanhoth - no problem!
'As to the 'cycle [we] follow'...we kick members who random kill. Just recently, we forced out one of our main killers for killing KoDA and VC.' Yeah, as others nicely pointed out already, all that means complete shit when the typist remains in the guild/connected to the guild.
Also, who the fuck is Khaos to complain about idle killing. He already forgot about that time he two man idle killed a servant in Mordor on his ER?
Surprisingly enough I don't really object to anything Manni said with great ferocity.
-SUMMARY OF THE FOLLOWING POINT AVAILABLE BELOW FOR THOSE TOO LAZY TO READ LONG COMMENTS-
As for Khaos, (this coming from me - undoubtedly one of his most dedicated enemies on the mud) he suffers from several lesser problems which tend to lead to greater ones. To Sean and Brandon (is that the spelling of your name? My apologies if it's not), I'm not saying this to talk shit. I'm trying to be frank.
First, Khaos is horrible at talking shit. I mean, like, really bad. That in and of itself isn't so bad - I mean, I'm willing to bet I'd be bad at giving an elephant an enema, but I'd count that among my better traits ;) The problem is that when he was a newbie, Khaos would talk shit when he died - as you do. I'm pretty sure we all did the same when we were newbies. Lately he's been toning it down a lot, but one of the effects of the crowd with which he rolled was that he didn't even slow down on the shit talking for a _long_ time. The after effects of what people do lasts much longer than the acts themselves. This was the first and foremost reason I disliked him, and the fact that he does it less now (as far as I know) is a reason I was getting on towards being able to tolerate him before I left.
Second, as was observed, he was brought up in battlepoints on the other side. Randomkilling was good, or at least acceptable then. Definite impact on his perspective, which I think is unfortunate.
Third, he's a little bullheaded - when he's doing the wrong thing, in my experience, he tends to give the finger to people who kick him in the balls to right his path (Example: I was a mouthy little bugger before battlepoints, FRA kicked the shit out of me, and I learned diplomacy). People like Sean gently guided him basically in how to do what he already did, but better, as opposed to identifying destructive habits and curtailing them.
On the whole, I've seen a _lot_ of improvement from him. That doesn't mean I like him. Outside of Durmanhoth, at the moment at which I quit there were very few I disliked more. But I can see the basis for people giving him another shot, and as Duncan can tell you, I supported just that from my throne.
-SUMMARY- Khaos was horrible, is getting better, I don't like him but I can sympathize with those who do.
Haha, I see what you're doing Orcoron and I'll bite! :)
Khaos is a great guy, but we can't have members killing and random killing. This person you call his alt, we prefer to evaluate on an individual basis. I don't care whose alt he is - as long as you contribute to the guild and lend in the brotherhood, you are always welcome in the Durmanhoth.
For example, prior to the Durmanhoth - BkD war, Azer had an alt in Durmanhoth. We knew who he was, but we allow people in on good faith. We were forced to boot him after he would log on, ask Mordor password (immediately after boot...under 3 minutes), we would tell, and suddenly Azer would be online leading a 5 man in Mordor (when we were the only ones in Arda with the password)...and countless more examples.
Seeing as I come from a guild that currently has such an attitude I can certainly understand it. But it makes you look bad when you're kicking a guy for (from what I can gather) directly disobeying orders by killing and attacking people that aren't BKD, hitlisted or in Mordor and who potentially draws another bunch of players into the war (which you ostensibly claim to want ended). Only to have half your members spend the next two days helping him level a new alt for the guild. It makes people think you're either being sly in difussing a situation or you're not in control of your members.
You know I do feel bad for the kid. He came into the game during battlepoints and probably just figured thats what it was all about. Then had pretty much the entire game make him the target of their hatred for the whole system. Now he's got a massive chip on his shoulder and an ego to boot. Problem is when a person gets like that, they often end up getting the people around them painted with the same brush.
If you're gonna give him a fresh start, maybe try injecting a little personality into him. The kid is just mimicing things he's heard Fyng say:P It's what made him so easy to pick out.
Anyways I think that's enough random shit to get this log up to at least 100 comments!
Manni, stfu! And Orcoron you too. Khaos is a nice kid. You know he is not the problem. Sean is a problem, your durm spreekillers are one too. Khaos is one of the few decent durms. Like less than 5 total.
Stop taking your agression out on Khaos. When he started mudding people like Orcoron were showing how 'great' they are on his back. And everyone hated him just for being on the other side. Noone noticed that he was the only evil who actually had the courage to do something different than hiding. And he never whined, unlike Sean for example. If Khaos kills you, it is your fault. Hell, you are treating him 1000 times worse than what would give me a good reason to levelbash you if I were in his shoes. What are you expecting from him? To buy you candies?
Well, in the past, the Durmanhoth attitude might have been 'Khaos attacked you? Fuck you, try and kill us.'
While I'm not going to let a week of marginally controlled mayhem on Khaos's part marginalize the good things that he's great as a personal friend and friend to the guild, I did think a fresh start was appropriate in this case.
Dude, Delkin, your posts are so damn hypocritical, I stopped laughing halfway through the thread... weird :=S
I don't know, that's pretty inflamatory language. He's certainly very emotional.
And Khaos's other non-assassin alts have done just fine with non-aggression.
No I mean't to post it with this one!
You're logged into the wrong character to post that!
I'm controversial, like for example!
Khaos'new alt tells you: wow your lamesauce
You tell Khaos'new alt: *You're
Khaos'new alt tells you: Don't correct me you lame shithead
Khaos'new alt tells you: Fucking idle kill someone?
You tell Khaos'new alt: But you were mistaken.
You tell Khaos'new alt: She wasn't idle.
Khaos'new alt tells you: Think your cool?
Khaos'new alt tells you: Yes she was
You tell Khaos'new alt: I watched her do things right before I attacked.
You tell Khaos'new alt: I guess she was idling with triggers then. which is illegal.
Khaos'new alt tells you: Got a reason to why you idle killed her?
You tell Khaos'new alt: I do, now how is it any of your business kid?
Khaos'new alt tells you: I'm her friend
Khaos'new alt tells you: I wanna know the reason
You tell Khaos'new alt: That you want to doesn't mean much.
Khaos'new alt tells you: Your low
You tell Khaos'new alt: *You're
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: You're!
Khaos'new alt tells you: happy scrub
You tell Khaos'new alt: You certainly seem upset.
You tell Khaos'new alt: Nice to know Manni is full of shit and kicked Khaos only to allow you in though.
Khaos'new alt tells you: So now your talking about alts?
You told Manni: That's interesting. I mean, to be able to claim you kicked Khaos when what actually happened was that he hibernated so you decided to allow in his alt instead....Or correct me if I'm wrong:P
Manni told you: i wouldve kicked him whether he hibernated or not and told him he couldnt be an assassin... he doesnt
have an alt in now, though
You told Manni: Well no, not right now, you guys are busy
levelling him:P
Im sitting around wondering how Orcoron always provokes extremely long comment pages :p
If not than there is just one left!!! The hardest one!
You're telling me Khaos isn't a member anymore?
See what I mean? He has a way to make things look so purdy in his defense:) I freaking hate it:)
A brief addendum:
As soon as this war with BkD has been sufficiently concluded I entirely expect that we will embark on a long period of peace. We recently had some bumps with a few guilds because of a member here and there, but I think overall our relations with just about everyone have been going swimmingly.
Wow, I don't check the log page for 4 hours and I miss a whole thread.
Ok, I agree with a lot of what's been said by people in my guild and people arguing against my guild.
Things I agree with:
Don't compare Durm to KotN
Don't compare Durm to old Durm
The cyclical pattern of violence has been repeated for years and years.
Our theme is a little nebulous
Things I don't agree with:
The cyclical pattern of violence is doomed to repeat itself
Just because our guildinfo says Durmanhoth means we're assholes
There were some serious structural issues with the way Durmanhoth members ran the guild and its inter-guild relations for a long time. They pissed people off and expected no retribution. Back then, there were 4-5 guilds that they would piss off and 2-3 guilds that would ally with them, generally creating a balanced war. However, after a month or two of balanced war, a few Durmanhoth killers would go inactive, leave, or have to trash their characters because of maxed fines. Inevitably, Durmanhoth would swing into a downward cycle where they would get hammered by their opponents. This has repeated itself over and over and over because Durmanhoth never felt it had to deal with guilds diplomatically and never felt it had to uphold its end of an agreement.
Since December of last year, Durmanhoth has grown in size. We have a lot of old players and a lot of new players. A few of our players tend to have controversy follow them, but the vast majority do not. I don't think we really rely on those controversial players and they don't get to decide who we go to war with by drumming up random offensive action. Just ask Brubaker or Khaos for my opinions on that.
The fact is, in our situation, the guild that used brute force over a diplomatic path, the guild that didn't uphold its end of the agreement in this case was BkD when Azer killed two Durms and told us 'Tough shit.'
I really do like to think that in general we have decent people in Durmanhoth. Of course there's some trash talking and attempt reporting that goes on in war that you wouldn't have in non-war situations, but that's about winning a war, not winning Miss Congeniality in a MUD beauty pageant. There are people we've had apply or accepted that didn't work out, mostly because they weren't cooperative nice guys that could get things done as a team. In a guild of our size, you have to be a team player or you'll cause all sorts of hissy fit drama that's bad for the guild. I think the fact that we've had limited incidents of that is a testament to us having good people.
I don't expect everyone to be friends with us, but if you do consider yourself an enemy or unfriendly, you should ask yourself why.
I would bet that half of the Durmanhoth know their own theme.
Just to clarify: does Durmanhoth have any theme beyond being a group of people who like hanging out together? Because I think thats how a member described them to me.
Bah, 8 years ago is 2000 or '99 when I levelbashed Orlandu, Deadlok and co and soloed Klouse (It was quite an accomplishment back then). I wasn't a candle in '96 either and I don't remember anything about Mutalator other than desacrating his statue. Pounder, when you mean 12 years ago say 12 years, not 8:P
Erm 96 97 or around there it's been to long.
His name was Ainaruth and it was Mutalator.
Umm, dude the durms he's talking about is more than 8 years ago and you weren't a candle in those days bro. Sorry. He's talking 95 96.
I uh..I have to agree with Tlaloc. Not including when I was a newbie in VC..I can't think of a time when Durms were scary. Maybe for a little bit when Serex, Deadlok, Klouse and co ran around DoMeChEkInG people in 5 mans, but then any halfway competant 5 man back then was something to worry about:P
Pounder, did you live in a barn? Fear of the old durms? I killed them enmass. I died alot, I was a newb back then but they died more. The old durms were an abomination.
I miss Kubar too!
That'd be me, Daeman, and Pounder, I wasn't trying to say Durms were like KotN. I included it in the list of things Durms have at one point or another recently attempted to convince people they are - the soft cuddly newbie helpery let's all have fun 'theme'. It wasn't meant as an insult to KotN, or to say that the two groups truly share(d) anything in common at all.
I (Pentheus) was in KotN (As Cadmus, pre-namechange). I loved it there. It was a great place. And Pounder, if you still keep up with Kubar, say hi for me. I haven't seen him on MSN in ages.
Pentheus compared them for their helping newer players.
Side note. Who put KOTN and Durm in the same sentence?
I wasn't cracking on your rl, just stating a fact about what you said. Since you are obviously wrong then the effect , by which you so stated yourself, would be that your stocks are failing since you are in fact wrong on this statement.
And for the record, I am not anti durm, I am anti-certain people.
I have more quarters in my home than almost anyone in arda.
If you want to speak about my RL then sure. My stocks are doing very well. In the last week I am up 3% in realized capital gains.
I would kindly request two things from anyone arguing these points (and please don't stop, I am having a few laughs from it)....
1. Please don't ever compare Durms with KoTN.
2. Don't ever compare the REAL (OLD) durms to the current durms.
To do either is to disrespect the past, and at least that is still somewhat remembered fondly.
People were actually afraid of the old durms, when Ainamaruth(SP? forgive me it was 8+ years ago) was GM, there was actual fear of dying, fear of pissing them off. It wasn't from the fact they could kill you, it was from the way they acted. Very true RP, and they had only a few major groups to contend seriously with.
Durms being compared KoTN. Any of my friends or people who respect me please do not even bring that up if this comparison was made. Anyone who knew my guild would know that is so far from the truth. Despite what 1 or 2 people will try to say because their hate of me, my guild was always (or nearly almost always) VERY judicious on who we went after. We supported trying to grow the player base in addition to keeping old school players with a great sense of style. We did grow newbies, but we had fun events and the guild wasn't about paying dues or making gold or getting larger vaults, bigger armouries, anyone can do that. It was somewhat created for my friends and others who liked our playstyle and to defend people from ERs and other stitheads. It wasn't created to go out and kill tons of people and attract filth and keep them interested in the game longer so they can ruin the potential experience of the rest of the players.
Delkin is never wrong though Guruk, I wonder how his stocks are really doing:)
Yah, how much experience did we make a couple mil together? Plus gold *shrugs*
Well you are man. I'm not joking or being an ass about this point. I joined bkd after I race changed. I had guild info hidden for atleast a week too. I did this on purpose. *shrugs*
Daemans info as an ER was nothing to do with BkD.... I spent a lot of time partying with Daeman the uruk-hai.
[new] Date: 05. Feb, 2008, 2:44:07 By: Daeman
You're flat out wrong. Sorry.
Hmm, if you say it that way, then oh my! I must be!
It did when Delkin started talking his bullshit.
I think you should all stop now before this thread comes to the point of stupid.
You're flat out wrong. Sorry.
Your character was an evil race then changed to dwarf. BkD was in your legendinfo the entire time.
Dude thats a fucking lie. I race changed when we had the opportunity to. I was a member WAY before servants or evils were allowed in the guild. If what you said is true and since this statement is obviously false I really do fear for you. I'm surprised you aren't broke already.
'Durmanhoth now being on the receiving end, you are trying to save the guild from extermination by saying you don't want anything else but a surrender from BKD just to gain a better negotiating position. The dwarves won't fall for it though.'
We wish for a surrender so that we can reach a lasting agreement. This is all that I can see which will keep us from each other's throats. At this moment, our guild has 14 members online and last month we raised a very sizable sum of gold...I don't think we're close to extinction.
Anyway, I have an investment club meeting in 15 minutes on campus. I'll be back in a few hours.
Daeman - Numenorean on his inception, after he was suspended for a week, he changed to dwarf.
Haha, Delkin:)
Durmanhoth now being on the receiving end, you are trying to save the guild from extermination by saying you don't want anything else but a surrender from BKD just to gain a better negotiating position. The dwarves won't fall for it though.
On BKD and humans - the dwarves in the books were ok with humans, especially bardings (remember the king under the mountain). The edain in the game are the closest thing to bardings since both the beornings and the bardings come from the house of Beor in the first age. So it's very good RP to ally with edain against an evil enemy.
'Dude, you are WRONG. '
-Daeman
In real life, I day-trade stock. This means, at any given moment of the day, I can take out a loan for twice my net-worth and 'bet' if you will, on the performance of a stock or security. When I'm wrong, I lose money...if my stock goes down 50%, I am broke. I put money where my mouth is, Daeman. I am seldom wrong.
Numenoreans?
'You forget that being in a guild means a certain criteria has to be upheld.'
-Daeman
We uphold our theme and give back to the community at all times. We encourage any member to bring in their friends so they can contribute to our environment and better the game as a whole.
If you want to get in a mud-slinging campaign, sure - Our guild has upheld our theme and ideals to a T. BkD has allowed in edains and numenoreans as members. BkD has broken MUD treaties. BkD has offered to destroy its own history to preserve itself. BkD allows power-players in (with the specific goal of PKing Durmanhoth) and allows them to cycle in alts as soon as that character is spent.
'Delkin, the very first person to have ever talked about continuing the war if it ended was... you, in fact. You expressed your glee at the war being waged, and said that if it was ended you'd keep killing us. Don't try and play the innocent victim or the little guy standing up against big bad BKD; it suits you about as well as attempting someone solo who isn't blind or a newbie.'
I said that intentionally for you to bring it up in Log-o-mania :P No joke...I tried saying it in enough ways to get you to quote me. Dead serious :). What I really want is an end to this war with lasting peace.
'BKD lets in guests. The fact that we traditionally haven't admitted non-dwarves even as guests doesn't change this fact. Now, if a Runefist King had let an elf in as a guest, that would be a major breach of RP. Balzmaon, however, is taking the guild in a different direction. Inclusion of non-dwarves on a guest membership basis is not at all a departure from the overarching theme of the guild.'
Balzamon told me his goal as GM was to return to BkD roots. Interesting.
'The only theme I can see which has been constant in Durmanhoth is that it contains powerplayers who... powerplay'
Skyman is a 100% power-player. Your guild let him in with the specific intent of killing Durmanhoth members at any cost...even his character...he'll be able to cycle in the next.
'In fact, your 'questioning' a questionable violation of the treaty was gangbanging one of our members without speaking a word with anyone in charge. And OUR guild has violated every treaty it has established with you? Really? That's REALLY the platform you want to stand on?'
http://logs.dyndns.dk/viewer.php/12183
--------------------------------------
You told Mathias: You say we are a flagship. How so?
Mathias told you: High activity, high guild representation; in general, you follow through with the central theme of your guild (assassins). Also, your guild is high in recruitment and you facilitate guild-guild interaction (like your recent war).
Mathias told you: I can't name another guild that does the same. Even BkD with its high numbers.. what's a BkD? some dwarf group that says baruk ai-menu a lot.
-------------------------------------
Of course it is Zaellyer, yet I take things like I'm going to rape your mother (who is dead in rl btw) to heart. I'm irish, I can't help it.
Well I guess we will saddle in for a hell of a war. I do speak for Balzamon when I say that we will never surrender to Durmanhoth or any guild in arda for that matter. It just won't happen. Our guild vault is still at an extreme amount and I dont forsee it decreasing. Just know that our inactivity will not last and you will end up regretting not accepting our talks.
Dude, you are WRONG. You forget that being in a guild means a certain criteria has to be upheld. ESPECIALLY if you say 'Durmanhoth respects RP. How can any guild fit into Arda without doing such?' If your fundamentals are skewed then your whole construct is flawed from the bottom up. If your titles spit in the eye of Tolkien how can you even remotely say you honor such things? Because YOU DON'T. You twist events and words to your own liking. Everyone freaking knows this and you are VERY ignorant if you think no one does.
Tlaloc:
Manni does not tolerate any reincarnation of G-Unit. If a member is seriously taken as being a random-killing 'thug' then he is removed or corrected. Also, if you have a problem with the Durmanhoth, join and grow in the ranks and positively express your opinion. Simply running around with BkD bangs and killing a member or two of Durmanhoth does nothing but propagate warfare.
Sincerely,
Delkin Broadshaft
:P
As I was involved in the 'negotiations' Delkin is trying to rewrite, I feel I should set a few things straight:
BKD asked, and indeed hounded Manni and Mute for weeks after that opening set of talks to give us a counterproposal to work with. The only offer that Durmanhoth _ever_ made to us was 'Unconditional surrender'. I stuck around extra long to try and fix the situation but, to be quite frank, Durmanhoth wasn't willing to talk. This is not BKD's war, and it hasn't been for months. This is Durmanhoth's war. It was started by BKD aggression, and it was perpetuated by Durmanhoth's.
You're half right: We did offer to tear up the treaty. We also offered a ceremonial execution of our sitting King to Durmanhoth. We didn't offer anything else, and Durmanhoth never asked for anything else (aside from unconditional surrender). We offered to continue to talk with representatives from Durmanhoth at every opportunity, though, and Durms were unwilling to speak to us. For that matter, it took me ages just to TALK to Manni; I think he replied to just under 10% of my tells. Call it being busy, call it what you want, but he was aging so he wasn't afk.
Delkin, the very first person to have ever talked about continuing the war if it ended was... you, in fact. You expressed your glee at the war being waged, and said that if it was ended you'd keep killing us. Don't try and play the innocent victim or the little guy standing up against big bad BKD; it suits you about as well as attempting someone solo who isn't blind or a newbie.
'Not only this, your RP has already been sacrificed by letting in an Edain.'
BKD lets in guests. The fact that we traditionally haven't admitted non-dwarves even as guests doesn't change this fact. Now, if a Runefist King had let an elf in as a guest, that would be a major breach of RP. Balzmaon, however, is taking the guild in a different direction. Inclusion of non-dwarves on a guest membership basis is not at all a departure from the overarching theme of the guild.
And who are you, a member of the Durmanhoth, to talk about theme? What exactly IS your theme? I've heard several different versions, all of which have been refuted by your membership: A band of elite killers, but Manni said no no, that's not it at all. A band of newbiehelpers similar in purpose to KotN? Delkin and Mute said that was utterly wrong, and the fact that you are and have been aggressively pursuing a war indicates that's not really it at all either. The only theme I can see which has been constant in Durmanhoth is that it contains powerplayers who... powerplay. That's really about it. Don't even try and mock BKD's theme; our weakest member or most unthematic visitor has more of a sense of theme in their smallest toenail than any member in your guild barring Nihil or Exhalev, who are special cases.
'As to the mutual line: your guild spoke by saying 'grind them into dust' after we questioned about a clear violation of a treaty...Also, how can we trust words or treaties which our guilds make? Your guild has violated every treaty it has established with us.'
In fact, your 'questioning' a questionable violation of the treaty was gangbanging one of our members without speaking a word with anyone in charge. And OUR guild has violated every treaty it has established with you? Really? That's REALLY the platform you want to stand on?
Daeman, it's a game.
Nalthic, I agree that peace is essential in the long run. In the short run, however, there simply is nothing we can do to achieve it. The past has shown twice that BkD breaks any form of truce it has established. I don't speak for Manni, but I genuinely can't see anything that will solve this without your guild offering a surrender. To be a truly 'level playing field' as your guild proposed, a surrender is essential in my mind. Our guild has surrendered when we were incorrect (even after several GM switches and alts cycled in). Our guild was accountable to our actions a few years ago. At the very least, your guild should be accountable for yours.
Or disband the ghetto and be done with teaching the real newbs how to suck up to Exhalev and be 'domecheckas'. Stop flooding the mud with such mentality.
'[new] Date: 05. Feb, 2008, 1:40:41 By: Daeman
Umm Delkin, should I post your titles and ranks? Get a clue dude.'
Titles and ranks...that's all they are - they exist solely for order and propriety within the guild. There is only 1 platoon which maintains a 'questionable' title. However, internal guild titles have no bearing to Daeman. It is the Durmanhoth guild and the Durmanhoth will run it. We allow platoons to be shaped by the members within them. If a platoon sees fit to label themselves by a title which you don't approve of, join the guild, join the platoon, and speak with the platoon leader to reach a more favorable outcome.
Yes and at the time I was not BKD... I had really left the guild but like others that leave and come back I decided this was no time to abandon my brothers. And Im glad I didn't. So please do not call me a liar or a piece of shit as you have in the past bc this isn't the case.
We cannot help what has happened in the past. Do I agree with the actions of my former king. I do not. But I see no reason why we can't work together to find an obtainable goal. You say you want peace well lets have peace. If you haven't noticed the Dwarves are starting to stir and there is going to be a serious problem on your part if you keep declining our talks for peace.
I respect alot of durms. I also would rather shit on some of them than to have the slightest words with. As Im sure you feel the same way with some of our BKD. But I see no reason why both guilds can't coexist.
No it won't Perry. I'm not a hypocritical bitch anymore. I don't say one thing and do the other. I will not play with certain people and I mean that. My hate is razor thin and directed at one group of players. I don't like them, I think they are detrimental to the gameplay and growing of this game. Only in the terms of how they act not in what they do.
All that hate's gonna burn you up, kid.
Umm Delkin, should I post your titles and ranks? Get a clue dude.
Mplay? It's not mplay when you bring ooc shit into. Spree killing? Not even close. Your guild made a choice. The killing I do or will do isn't spreeing it's confined to a select group of people. Shit you guys should get Orcoron to join or one of his many alts. He'd fit right in.
Tlaloc:
If you think G-unit and Domecheckas is serious, then please... :P I'm sure you're pointing that directly at me. I'm the biggest THUG in the guild! On a serious note - If you guys can step away from your glowing monitors for a few seconds and think this...'I just said 'Fie evil minions of Sauron' and my opponent replied 'shizzzz imma wreck you. G-G-G-G-G-UNIT!!''...you are bound to laugh...This MUD gets so ridiculously nerdy at times that if no-one says 'DOMECHECK that elf' then I am sure there is no hope. While Deadlok and them could have been serious in their thug-calls, I am everything but :P
We are nothing like the old Durmanhoth. We facilitate a system for people to express their individual RP while forming camaraderie and brotherhood for all. As to the theme: kill. We practice this when necessary but never random-killing. This is destructive and detrimental to the game as a whole. As to the 'cycle [we] follow'...we kick members who random kill. Just recently, we forced out one of our main killers for killing KoDA and VC.
Yup, thats your guilds fault for talking smack about my rl. You think I'm going to let you get away with it? Fuck you dude, my hatred goes far deeper then 'oh you killed me'. You're all on my perma hitlist for my typist. Which is perfectly legal and I'm sure fine by your eyes.
Daeman:
Exactly, Daeman...you can't fling this MP/spree-killing/anything stuff at us with a story like that. To be blatant, you're using your characters to your typist's goal. Draw whatever conclusion you'd like from that.
Nalthic:
Durmanhoth respects RP. How can any guild fit into Arda without doing such? Your offer of peace was just 'ok, our bad, let's just stop' and and offer to destroy your history (the letter). I don't speak for Manni and the Durmanhoth is not a democracy, but I am fairly sure that it is not our intention to have that letter destroyed. That is part of your history as well as ours. Years from now, we can each return to the MUD and be like 'haha remember that one time back in 2005'...Basically, all you offered was to erase part of what makes your guild unique in this game and leave us on a 'let's act like nothing just happened' ground. Not only this, your RP has already been sacrificed by letting in an Edain.
As to the mutual line: your guild spoke by saying 'grind them into dust' after we questioned about a clear violation of a treaty. This treaty was established after BkD declared war on Durmanhoth for the actions of a Durmanhoth alternative character. Also, how can we trust words or treaties which our guilds make? Your guild has violated every treaty it has established with us. Not only that, how can we trust you as members? You yourself lied while dying to try and save yourself by saying 'I'm not BkD!!!' over and over.
Bah! Durms! They sucked in 2000. They were domecheckas, g units, Deadloks (although he was cute) and what not. A ghetto! Then they became transformed into GV. I was quite negative about GV, I just wanted them disbanded (and we in the old FRA were quite close to disbanding them) but see GV now - a good RPing guild. I was probably wrong to want them disbanded. Look at Durmanhoth now - they RP the same ghetto.
That's the cycle the Durmanhoth is following. They started as a project to revive an old guild for a group of friends, they tried to evolve into something newbie-friendly and they ended up a ghetto with newbiekillers and cheaters, recruiting new players only to teach them how to clean golding mons for the vault and not even telling them they are in a war.
Maybe they need a theme change again. The old name brought he old ghetto back:(
I'm talking OOC. If my gm told me I had to stop killing you that would be fine. I would then recreate another alt thats unguilded and start killing you again *shrugs*
I believe what we offered was a reasonable offer.
It can be viewed at http://www.durmanhoth.com/bkdtalk.html
However I can see the lack of wanting to accept our proposal. But give us something to work with. Part of opening negotiations is for both sides to banter back and forth finding some peace. Not just listening to one side and be like no sorry not good enough come back when you have something better. That is a 'slap in the face' if you ask me.
We have tried for peace and still want it. It is up to BOTH parties to find a mutual line here.
Let's get this 150% correct. We should end this war with your guild and allow your killers to keep killing us?
You've guys have went to far in terms of mud etiquette. *shrugs*
Which it won't. I will never stop killing you. That doesn't mean you can't find a reasonable end to the conflict with my gm.
'The sad fact is if he was as good or morally inclined as Mute seems to think he is. He would end the war and rebuild his guild the right way.'
:/
I don't think we can simply 'end' this...we've tried in the past and war has just continued. We need to each work together to find a lasting solution.
'I'm not sure if anyone remembers but when all this hoohaa about Durms rebuilding and getting active etc came up I repeatedly said things along the lines of 'The Durmanhoth lives a cyclical patter that has been constantly repeated since its inception. It gets a spurt of activity, goes around and pisses off a bunch of people and then gets smashed.''
:/ :/
We're fighting for our existence. The only proposal so far is a complete slap in the face. I'm sure we'll eventually find a lasting solution, however.
A lasting quote from Daeman:
^ (OOC) Daeman: This will never end. I will never stop killing you.
That pretty much sums it up.
No-one has a monopoly on guildbreaking Pentheus.
Side note Orcoron, Manni tends to smooth things over by paying off other people or using very sly manipulations. I admit he's one hell of an oral negotiator and if he wasn't such a fucking twisted tongue talking prick I would love to see him reign over Durms for years. The sad fact is if he was as good or morally inclined as Mute seems to think he is. He would end the war and rebuild his guild the right way. Yet, this is not the case. WHAT HE IS DOING is using the war as a tool to keep his guild active because most of his active members are pkers. By doing this he's keeping the killers interested, golding for the guild and out of the activity warnings. Because honestly all the rp shit that durms cook up is blatant bullshit. Have you seen their ranks and titles. IT'S NOT TOLKIEN THEME RELATED AT ALL. It's like Ancient Domechecka or some bullshit. The mud runs in cycles, everyone who has played any considerable amount of time has seen this. Do a check on the logs, check how many players durms have now that were once against them in Udungul. Or vice versa. The really good gms notice the small currents that underline a cycle and take steps to rectify it. Not let in a bunch of pkers that only add a small change to current events.
I was referring not to his attempts to break in this log, but rather to his historical habit of guildbreaking from locations such as Edoras.
I think (not sure what Klardin was thinking) that if had lasted 3 more rooms, he would have had a nice break.
If this PK were a movie, its title would be 'A Guildhall Too Far'.
I don't freaking get it, WTF I never see anyone doing shit like this when I'm on, I freaking hate you Klardin:)
That being said, I think Manni is easily the best GM they've ever had, so with some intelligent and even handed leadership I think it could be avoided this time around.
Might be too soon to say but...
I'm not sure if anyone remembers but when all this hoohaa about Durms rebuilding and getting active etc came up I repeatedly said things along the lines of 'The Durmanhoth lives a cyclical patter that has been constantly repeated since its inception. It gets a spurt of activity, goes around and pisses off a bunch of people and then gets smashed.'
Granted it's only been a couple of weeks but it sure looks that way to me.