Mordor. Dies like the rest.
cheating in a game harms no one, so there's no victim... great outlook on life. cheating is still cheating, even if it harms no one, or when no one will find out about it. cheers to a great sense of integrity.
fdl go have some sex now and then
Perhaps pointing out that it was a straw man was the wrong semantic, but his analogy of child sexual abuse, or the consequences of such an action, is not analogous to anything Aryl, or his typist did. I did not alter his argument, I was only trying to point out the fallacy of it. As Malorian said, abusing children is wrong all the time, and I'll extend his argument to point out how sexual abuse actually harms another person. Cheating within a fantasy game harms no one and there is no 'victim.' Even mentioning it, then extending the analogy to point out how he was only using it as an example of law enforcement, artificially inflates the seriousness of rule breaking within the context of a game. The two are simply NOT analogous.
An analogy has nothing to do with the straw man fallacy. As Malorian said, the straw man fallacy occurs when you take what someone said and alter it (often through exaggeration) to weaken the argument, then argue against that.
Like, if I say 'the right to bear arms should be revoked' and someone responds with saying 'but the army and the police need guns to protect us!' that is a straw man fallacy.
In fact, Syra, it is you that is committing the straw man fallacy here. You have taken Mordhred's analogy regarding real life law enforcement (whether that is a flawed analogy or not is another issue) and bended his words to make it sound like he is comparing cheating here with child abuse, then (ironically) accused him of creating a straw man fallacy going with the argument you altered as a basis.
i liek milk
Haha, logical fallacy? Not really. Straw man? Do you even know what that means? He was using an analogy. IRL, abusing a child is a serious crime. In the MUD, abusing a bug is a serious crime. His analogy does have a weak point in that bug abuse only counts as abuse is you do it intentionally. Pedophilia is a crime no matter what.
A straw man is taking what someone else said and blowing it out of proportion. 'You're pretty good-''I AM GOD!'
Like that. He did nothing of the sort.
Ohh...I thought you were hung up over the graphic analogy. Yeah, that particular argument is weak. :P
No, I'm pointing out a logical fallacy. I understand his position, but he used a straw man to support it, so his argument fails.
Way to miss the point completely, Syra. :P
Mordhred, did you seriously compare what happened in this log to someone sexually abusing an eight year old?
I never watched Nemo. He's cute though.
Haha
Latin is gay.
that polk or 'nemo potesta ignorare legis'.
You didn't understand what I meant. Read it again. You can't say 'innocent till proven guilty', because it's already been proven guilty. The argument to make him innocent was 'he didn't know about it, and did it only once', which is invalid. Therefore, he is guilty.
You should learn what 'innocent until proven guilty' means, Mordhred :P In this case, the phrase 'ignorantia juris non excusat' would be more applicable.
If you abuse your 8yo neighbor just once, it's still pedophily, and you go to jail. Even if you didn't know it was illegal. So, throwing in 'innocent until proven guilty' in here doesn't really work.
'there's really no way they can prove he knew this would happen and the evidence supporting that he did know is pretty lacking,'
How do you know there was no evidence? Maybe right before it he sent everybody a tell saying 'Check out this bug I found, let's get somebody there.' That's all assumption though, it could just as well have been he didn't think of going linkdead as a bug.
I don't know if that abuse was enough for a nuke on its own, but when we don't have the whole of what happened it's hard to say there was no evidence.
I don't wanna teach Aryl how to get away:P But he is not 'any average player'. He has a lot of experience with bugs and bug abuse - he has been nuked/banned/suspended for such offenses. He of all people should know what a bug is. Especially after all of his bragging how he's so 1337 at coding and at 'understanding code'. So what we have here is not a clueless Bree newb who never fell off the cliff. Aaron, who is not a clueless Bree newb either, got just a warning for abusing this, as any normal player would. Aryl is a special case though. He himself said he was 'on thin ice'. Obviously Aryl knew how disconnecting there worked and thought to abuse it, instead of reporting it. On top of it, he abused it to gain an unfair advantage over another player. And even on top of that, he abused such a 'borderline' feature knowing very well that he would get in trouble for doing it. You reap what you sow, as people say.
That's in the real world Zae. There it's 'FUCK YOU WE'RE THE GODS HERE!! Read the disclaimer!'
prove he knew aeldor, innocent until proven guilty after all
lawl...hirgayl
The only person who gets ping flooded on this game is Grimscar alts, didn't you know that Hirgail?
It should be Hir-GAY-L... LOLOL
He could've bug reported it if it was an accident, Zaellyer. He knew he was abusing a bug. That's Aryl after all.
I thought to abuse a bug (assuming aryl did know this would happen) you'd have to do it more than once, there's really no way they can prove he knew this would happen and the evidence supporting that he did know is pretty lacking, if he had done this multiple times, sure he knew, like the linhir jail shit, but seeing as how you all hate aryl anyway because you're jealous it doesn't matter =p
Since the herkie has been reinstated, we can expect another secret namechange.
I agree with Nalthic.
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!?!?!? :(
Ravathir got reinstated
Grimscar? Sense? Come on.
Esteban, hopefully Grimscar will also come back to his senses after these nukes.
You can get that easily if you have some aces in your sleeves. That seems to be the case here, after all.
And i cant resist i must say this,
Goodbye Aryl, you are the best liar i have ever seen, You guys should overthrow Bush, he teaches you how to lie... seriously, GOODBYE ARYL! I wish you never come back again... *takes a deep breath and relaxes*
3 of them dc'ed at the same time, c'mon guys, its like having 2 A's and 2 on the ground in poker...
Aryl does have a shitty internet, when I play xbox live with him he lags out pretty often, it does seem a little too convientant that it happened to all of them at the exact same moment, but I wouldn't doubt if Aryl did disconnect and ravathir paniced like a noob and followed suit because aryl wasnt online to hold his hand and tell him what to do *shrugs*
I have said that the other guys had ping flooded me and made me d/c because it then shifts the attention away from what I did and onto the other guy while providing a plausible reason for what happened.
That was actually their excuse? HAHAHA
Even if that's the truth we can choose to believe it isn't and live happily with our own reality, btw.
to make it clear, i'm just jeopardizing ravathir!
Aryl, you guys may very well be telling the truth, but you said yourself it sounds like a shitty excuse. So why call people who see it as such morons?
bc you guys are cheaters? i can just picture the conversation.
Aryl: ok if we get cliffed shut down your client and you won't die.
Ravathir: ok boss these guys are SCH-RUBS anyway!
Aaron: oh shit guys i'm so fucking high i don't know what the hell is going on.
Aaron: wait are we falling?
Rav and Aryl: disconnect now!
Everyone: we all still good? k nice kill guys gg.
Aryl: now we need a lie to make it not look like bug abuse....
all of them start plotting it now.
am i close Aryl?
Sure this would be a pretty shitty excuse if it weren't the truth. Why would we 'use' a bug when Rav and I at least were on pretty fucking thin ice, a bug that would be widely seen by all of Arda. Why jeopardize our characters? Morons.
I was under the impression that Urban's post regarding disconnecting on Skype was of his own writing and intended purely for sarcastic purposes. Did the two of you really take him seriously and bother to come up with retorts, or is something wrong with me?
About skype:
1. i've been in durms, i've been in conference with mute delkin cruice ravathir letina if i good recall, noone ever crashed.
2. after that bug abuse, i spammed ravs skype and called him, he didn't want disconnected.
3. skype never crashed on me...
in aaron's defense, he is no where near created to be ravathir's puppet. the char aaron was created over a year ago. he has been a good friend of mine for a while on the mud. this is just him choosing the wrong side...
Perhaps they phoned each other :P
What sort of idiot yanks his whole internet connection, in the middle of a PK, when a completely separate program happens to crash. Usually I'd just restart the affected program (in this case Skype), although I'd have waited until the PK was over to do so.
Especially when you ALL went offline at the exact same time, if indeed Skype had crashed, how exactly did you communicate to each other that you should restart your internet connections? Surely at least one of the people would have simply restarted Skype or waited until the target was dead. The timing was also far too convenient.
As excuses go for abusing a bug, it's thin, easily debunked and just not plausible.
If you had wanted to make up a decent excuse, you could simply have said the large amount of scrolling text that particular event causes managed to crash the mud client you were using and that all three were using the same client.
That, would have at least been plausible.
lol Esteban, and what your log will prove? I dont need to see your log to know what happend, huh
We were on Skype together and it 'crashed'. We all
'quickly restarted our connections' while we were falling to
continue the conversation. 'Apparently' going linkdead while you
fall off the Morgul Road let's you survive without taking HP
damage.
Then again, if only I knew what I was talking about :(
Ravathir falls down from above and hits the ground!
Aryl falls down from above and hits the ground!
An empty vial falls down from above and hits the ground!
Aaron falls down from above and hits the ground!
shape all here
Aaron is in good shape.
Aryl is in perfect shape.
Aryl has a bad headache.
Ravathir is in good shape.
Beyaz is in perfect shape.
Esteban is in good shape.
|HP:213 EP:160||
Adanethel enters.
gl
A valley(s and n)
Adanethel the dunedain Champion (Hand of Eru)
Aaron the silvan [disconnected]
An empty vial
Aryl Darkwind the eorling Slayer (Ancient) [disconnected]
Ravathir the dunlending Stud (Sexy) [disconnected]
Beyaz Pradaeon the dunedain Ohtar-ie Dol Amroth (Silma hosse)
The charred remains of Adanethel
For Saurus' comment, no, I am sure Aaron just got away with a warning, they all abused that bug that disconnecting doesnt hurt you after hitting the ground, Others are known as bug abusers thats why they got nuked, for further questions, i can show you my log...
What's with you doofus' wielding MELS just before a pk?
Oh, my bad, you aren't claiming that 2 people got disconnected at that exact moment where disconnecting would give them an advantage, but rather that 3 people got disconnected at that moment.
then i don't know who the hell Aaron is. Tag me a clueless yellow-tailed zebra dog.
of course he does, he was created to party with Ravathir and be his support and nothing else
beucase Aaron, afaik, doesn't have a long historic of rule breaking and isn't a herkie.
had aryl not trusted the herkies, he could abuse any bug he wanted and would hardly be caught. Telling 'leetle' secrets to people that lack intelligence results in nuclear launches for both of 'em.
well question is why Aaron havent been nuked
Aaron has reconnected.
for sure he was low enough to die there becaouse Adanethel did hit him few times
Oh and did Ravathir also get disconnected? If so, surely, Aryl, you can't claim that you and Rav BOTH got disconnected at that same crucial moment. Don't be like Manni and keep denying the obvious, makes you look silly. Or was Ravathir nuked for something else?
Aryl, if you want to try to convince any half decent mud player that your connection crashed during that fall, then you are an idiot. You clearly disconnected yourself out to avoid damage apparently. Nonetheless, that by itself do not deserve a nuke or even a warning, but like its been said before, how harsh the ainu would be towards what they percieve as an abuse/multiplaying/whatever is very subjective on the perception of the mud and the ainu towards you. So, since everyone else believes that you are a multiplaying herkie or one who hangs with them, then for sure you would get nuked for the slightest offense you might cause... Someone else might only get a stern telling off!
That being said, you require a break if you actually use phone/skype to talk about mud action!
A city called Herkimer? cooooooooooL
oh, well it's a really lame city where intelligence and maturity is not abundant. I guess people like Hosh just took it all up and left none for the other poor bastards.
I seriously don't know. I came back and everybody was calling everybody Herk or Herkimer. ?????????
I really don't believe that you don't now by know Ilius :P
What is a herk?
I gotta admit I agree with you Nalthic. I generally found Fyng semi decent most of the time until he got married to the village of herk.
sad to see aaron with you guys... oh well i guess he hasn't learned what hanging out with you guys will end up costing him. i mean look at what syra lost by hanging out with you. good riddance rav and fyng hope if you come back you will play a bit more smart.