Long fight.
Shit, just pulled a Tireless with the paragraph comment.
Thanks Tireless, I never 'hated' you but you know that we both and others get under eachothers skin sometimes. Shit happens. Nothing anyone says bothers me on here anymore. I can't play anymore, maybe it's good for the mud, maybe it isn't. Either way there isn't any way I can change that or anything done in the past. I don't know what went wrong after we were allies for a while, but I would rather see you become a power and have some powers be dropped ranks, because I think that you have better judgement. I'm sure that other people will disagree, but that is my opinion, and hopefully the mud will get better instead of worse for all of you.
Trap enjoys playing a thief, leave him alone :P
yea, i know that :P but i had snuck in and was hiding, so i went with the sneaky way of doing things :P
You know you can just LOOK at people to see if they have healing or not, right?
not sure, but this was a fun fight, other than aquilon dying :( We were all very aware of the danger involved, but they are at war, and supposedly i'm on beornings hitlist, so i offered to help even things out a bit :P I had been spying on beornings while they where in Outpost just prior to this log, waiting for them to give up on a trap they where trying to set so we could try them at a safer location, was even able to appraise them all to look for hand healing without being noticed :P
A token comment on the log itself:
Why why why why why why why why why why why why why why
Would you take the rider into PvP in an outdoor room without any mounts?
I still don't know who Shabba is...
I love you too Urban. And I can't tell if that's sarcasm coming from you Duncan, it if isn't I'll laugh at the irony
Who doesn't?
i hate you shabba, i really do.
Oh thanks Daywalker, I can't see his shit so. That's just hilarious. Cruice is a piece of shit and especially fails at commenting on the log page. :)
Cruise is just another kid playing before school, comments like this just make me laugh:
[new] Date: 24. Mar, 2009, 2:51:55 By: Cruice
Sorry Pounder, the ainur won't let us come back.
<3 to: Pounder, Kozlodoev, Manni, Daywalker
@Tevildo: No </3. I think the situation is a little more complicated than the dumbed down presentation being given so neither side can be called outright wrong.
Cruice, while I appreciate the setup you gave Pounder... I don't mind you when you don't talk (or talk little). You're a good guy when you don't try and talk trash, and I honestly believe you to be the most unjustly maligned typist out of Herkimer. I just wanted to take the opportunity to let you know that for all the conflict between us and between the mud and you, I don't think you're a bad guy. Sometimes you do some pretty asinine stuff, but (and this isn't an underhanded compliment) you're generally a decent guy.
I'm gonna keel you dead DW. Dead, you hear me? Dead!
Meh I don't play and still consider myself part of the playerbase :(
Notice how deftly Pounder establishes his intellectual superiority over everyone. Well, fuck everyone, over me. I wish I could be as smooth:(
That's an excellent way to increase the intelligence of the playerbase, so I definitely support the actions they are taking to clean up the place.
Sorry Pounder, the ainur won't let us come back.
Fixed:
'If have a larger group than everyone else AND you take the 24 hours to wait off your fines, you should not have to pay them.'
The key change in this case is, there is no skill having huge numbers and much smaller groups in mordor. The lair was acceptable only because it took skill/knowledge to get there.
Second: Even though me and Daywalker don't always agree, we at least have some level of respect for each other and I agree completely with his comment 'Well first of all, Khaedes and Azkur are not that special, dont give them credit for something someone showed them.'
Thirdly: People have gone wanted for 24 hours without being caught. While, in the old days, there were enough people to band together and butcher a group hiding in mordor, that is not the case anymore, therefore the time not decreasing in mordor is an applicable and fair rule.
Fourth: A player should never be restricted from attacking another player except if they are newbies (low levels that is), or it is during an event such as March 15th. This causes a fundamental imbalance and corrupts the game severly. If you guys have forgotten a past example of this, see fail kills/BP's during ER era.
I will now go back to playing D2 because you can still chose to hang out with intelligent mature adults and there are different things to play around with. Let me know when an intelligent player base returns, maybe I will poke around.
Re: Manni... Technically, you can't 'cuff anyone who is wanted anywhere'... there are still places people can't raid or enter (at least for awhile); the help files call this bug abuse, but enforcement seems spotty at best.
Re: Kozlodoev... I was referring to Daywalker's initial comment. I agree that 'the new system does exactly what the ainur want: discourages people from going wanted.' This is what Daywalker wanted to -change-. Making it -easier- to be wanted. Which, he claimed, would -discourage- people from being wanted. If anyone can explain the reasoning, by all means do.
<3 manni
lol
I only respond to comments in which I'm called an idiot when they contain fewer than four typos.
I'm not paying fines to idiots. And reporting for an attempt shouldn't stop combat. At least until both the attacker and the attacked log off.
Except when they can only wait of the fines in mordor because then they can have 10 people helping them because they don't have to pay fines when helping a criminal. If they cannot stay wanted for 24h in any area except mordor it isnt because they have skills. It's like saying they shouldnt change closet or Gundy because with those areas i could stay wanted for 24h aswell, and everyone else sucks because they cannot become an ainu and code there character so they can enter a one man room.
Idiot
Why is it a great change? You can cuff anyone who is wanted anywhere... Including Mordor or thier guildhall. If you're better than everyone else AND you take the 24 hours to wait off your fines, you should not have to pay them. If Khaedes and Azkur waited off those fines and could not be caught, that means they were better than everyone else and should not have had to pay.
Well first of all, Khaedes and Azkur are not that special, dont give them credit for something someone showed them.
Second, the change with the wanted time not decreasing is a great change, especially for the guild places.
However, this invulnerability is (as ainur love to say) 'imbalanced'.
If they want to prevent people from being wanted and not paying fines, why don't they just remove wanted?
When you can't pay, get jailed, skills taken away and boom - you win.
But you can't have arda's best playerkillers being cuffed by some new guy who started to play yesterday and thinks its 'cooool'.
Its how people like Caenedrin were born.
Right Tireless... And I'm saying that just because two of the best players on the MUD can do something that others can't, doesn't mean you should change the rules so that their abilities are rendered useless. It all leads to unintended consequences (like new alts every 2 months) anyway.
I agree with Daywalker, funnily enough. Arresting someone is a RISK. It's dangerous, and not something which players should be undertaking lightly. Doubly so when the intended target is an experienced playerkiller, or someone that's likely to have a lot of friends. I don't think it's right that someone should be able to go into a combative situation like that and not be vulnerable themselves.
The Mordor change was also made because of Azkur and Khaedes. As a result people can no longer hide in the Lair to go wanted. However, the two are not related (Wanted time not decreasing in Mordor was not the result of someone hiding in lair... it, and the handcuff change, and the no wanted time decreasing in your guildhall change, all the result of Azkur and Khaedes 2 years ago.
If there was a case of people repeatedly avoiding fines through the system then it was definitely an issue. Of course it's the diminishing playerbase's fault, but people were repeatedly getting killed without reimbursements.
'But i doubt it is because of a speciel person doing 24H inside shelobs lair without a single one daring to try him.' But i SUSPECT it is ---
Mordor makes sense tho. Since the wanted can get more help in Mordor and they don't have to pay fines. But i doubt it is because of a speciel person doing 24H inside shelobs lair without a single one daring to try him.
Wanted time doesn't even decrease in Mordor anymore, so I don't know how you'd expect to get through 24 hours. So it's turned into a strategy of 'go big or go home'... Where if you can't pay your fines, you can either get arrested or get a couple friends to help resist arrest (which requires them to all get jacked up fines and perpetuate the cycle until their characters are also drained).
I dont remember Azkur or Khaedes doing such things, but I don't think its a problem.
If they could not be arrested properly, this means that there were not enough good players who have the balls/eq/skill to do it.
It has nothing to do with the system, it has to do with the playerbase.
There are many players who are many times better that the above mentioned jerks, and they could be arrested.
If you want to discourage players to go wanted, raise the arrest reward.
Tevildo :( You aren't very bright, are you? :(
'the new system does exactly what the ainur wants: discourages people from going wanted.'
The new system is what we have in place now. So sorry, man :(
The 'problem' you stated is the one addressed in my comment. No one forced those deputies to go after a wanted criminal. They chose to participate in PVP, went after wanted criminals, and were for some reason surprised when they ended up dying. Add a warning when deputizing, that takes care of that problem nicely, don't make the deputy powerful because some can't handle being one.
lol, the torches were a great trick.
Yeah, broken throwing weapons was a dark time :P I once locked Mute and the first thing he did was store MELS and pull out his torches to start throwing at me. He did significantly more damage that way.
How would making it easier for criminals to kill deputies dissuade people from going wanted?
If the problem lies in the ability to:
1) intentionally go wanted
2) bait deputies
3) have friends jump out and kill them while they're immobilized by the cuffs, then it doesn't matter whether anyone was makes it to 24 hours. You'd just pay off your fine after getting the desired cheap kills. This was an oft-utilized technique, as I recall, back when the bladed pole-arm was popular.
It was March, 2007. The last Durm war broke out around October, 2007 (that is arguably the start of the 'Durm Era', since 2 months prior to that BKD was giving them a thorough pasting.)
It was when Udungul had their guildhall in the Black Drums camp -- so it'd be right before the Durm era.
Hmm, was this during the durm era? I can see how they could have pulled it off at their peak activity.
The impetus for the change was Azkur and Khaedes getting away 4 out of 5 attempts at going wanted for over a million in fines. I'd disagree with Koz regarding the 'not forced to participate in it' bit because the arresting individuals were acting on behalf of people who were PKed and no reimbursed -- those people were not voluntarily participating in the system.
All that said, Koz's position is a fair (and strong one). There have been many changes made for questionable or outright bad reasons, and many more made for good reasons that were extremely unpopular. Which category this falls into is by no means definite, though ultimately it doesn't matter because it's not going anywhere :P
Fuck, that comment contains an imperfection. Thread reopened.
Might as well close the thread after that comment. If you agree and voice it, it doesn't make the comment any more true. If you disagree and voice it, then you are wrong. Do you want to be wrong on the internet? I think not.
Their reasoning is flawed. Allow me to demonstrate:
There wasn't really anyone who made it through the 24 hour period before the change. Therefore, people got arrested anyway eventually and and the fact that a few people got discouraged does not point at the ineffectiveness of the system as a law enforcement tool. What the change essentially accomplished was remove certain PVP gameplay because some disliked participating in it. Seeing as they were in no way forced to participate, this strikes me as odd. And they still don't have a chance to participate because the new system does exactly what the ainur wants: discourages people from going wanted. Therefore, logs like this are highly rare.
I see no issue with there reasoning. Sounds pretty good to me.
The change from unattackable to attackable happened sometime around a year ago. I forget the exact reasoning, but I doubt they'll change it back.
ERs are noobs lol
You wrote in a report:
>
>Handcuff.
>When someone comes to handcuff you, and you obviously overpower him,
>there should NOT be any protection for him. I mean, imagine you go to
>bring a criminal to justice. He will shoot you in the head without even
>thinking of it.
>There is no divine protection for that!
>This needs to be changed!
>
>
Nope, this won't get changed. This is to prevent abuse of a wanted
person constantly using his advantage (also with help of friends)
to discourage people going after him.
We do want something quite opposite: discourage people from being
wanted and make them pay fines on time.