Didn't work the first time. Tlaloc will try and try again.
Btw, I dunno about the rest of them, but Draimon was a scary player whenever he'd come back. Way more skillz than any of those silly fucking Daedin clowns.
Good old Ketan coming through with some well thought through logic! I miss the Solonites, Klokers and Wu-Tangers :(.
i am so jealous
Btw, if you guys thought people on the towers were screwed up...
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/03/north.carolina.arranged.rape/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
Goes to show you, if there is something really really out there that can be done, it will be done, and often times on craiglist.
What tireless is basically saying in a nutshell for those who have ADD like myself, he's trying to keep this place semi civil and to his best ability enjoyable for people actually coming here just to read the logs not just the comment sections. :P
Tireless, not to undermine your policy, but anyone here can say whatever they want about ME even bringing RL into it (even generic your mom jokes I encourage). I personally find all internet tags hilarious and non-sensical. That and this makes for a great break from work.
The point isn't that your system isn't perfect, it's that it's horrible :P
You should require 10 people who've actually had an auto-rating post made on their own logs to contact you before you give a shit about it.
While true, there exists some subset of comments which one ought not have to ignore (hence there being a rule for such comments) -- for example, it is not acceptable to be a racist bastard on this site. It's also not acceptable to make RL threats. Either of these practices could be ignored, but the reality is that we don't permit them.
What exactly distinguishes the unacceptable variety of harassment from the acceptable heckling is not entirely clear to me, but I'm doing my best to operate fairly and consistently with the rules. I could talk to any one of you about how I should have proceeded and the rest of you would be equally on my case. I could talk to the community about how to proceed and nothing would get done. Ever.
I'm not trying to be rude, but the reality is that I've chosen how to proceed in this situation. I understand the concerns and objections raised by all of you. I'll make an effort to improve upon my methods next time a similar situation arises. But you're just going to have to deal with the fact that my system isn't amazing and perfect and I'm not perfect either and go with me on this one.
Why is this even an issue? If it bothers someone, they can ignore him. It's as simple as that.
Pounder has it damn straight. I thought it was unecessary though. I believed everyone already knew that by now. but yeah, like I said before, never underestimate herkies' stupidity.
The interesting thing about this whole argument is, a herk or herkie no longer applies to just those from a particular location, so any argument that this is used as RL harassment has long past legitimate form. As Ketan explained very well, groups throughout the history of Arda have been labeled based on their grouping or location. I think its best to quote an old thing they used to say themselves: 'Cry some more?'. I mean seriously, if someone accused me of being a Pot, that would be about as bad as being called a herk, but I wouldn't give a flying flipshit about it honestly. Are we going protect people from being called American in a negative way now too? You fucking people need to grow some sort of spine or balls or attach some balls of twine to a skeleton spine or a halloween costume... wait I am getting off track. Anyways, Exhalev is just trying to argue this so his BFF's don't get harassed and laughed at hence reducing their self confidence, which by the way is virtually impossible as history has shown.
What's wrong with arguing for the sake of arguing, it's a very common thing in law school btw (ad argumentandum tantum), and it's actually a very good way to practice rhetoric and, in my case, to prevent my english from getting rusty.
Yes, I could achieve that in other places (and i actually do in mafiascum and livemocha), but I like to comment here because I love you all :)
Really? We dont have anything else to discuss? pathetic :)
My humble opinion: Let him hate. Don't like it? Don't read it/bother with replying to it. His stuff is old and rusty, barely anything he says any more is new, funny, provocative, constructive, offensive, smart, etc etc.
And who cares about rating? This place is, as Exhalev says, about exhibiting and publishing logs for readers pleasure, not for the damn oscars award for highest rating.
-Thank you for your time! :)
Furthermore this logpage isn't some neutral place where everyone has a say because they simply have accounts. This place exists to exhibit logs, and the opinion of the people who provide the content should clearly outweight the stooges and griefers that bring nothing to this extension of the community. It is called cutting out the cancer.
Yeah, well people complain so much about his autorating that I wanted to pursue the matter sufficiently to either justify or overturn my original opinion. (My original opinion was that, while annoying, he wasn't breaking any rules.)
My thought regarding the 10 people is I probably won't give it any credence if no Herkies mail me. However, I do feel that individuals at which comments are not targeted can still register a valid complaint. The issue is not whether _more_ people think there is a problem than not, it's whether an appreciable number of people feel there is a problem. My reasoning might not be perfect, but if I go back and reform it every time someone has a jurisprudential issue with my theory I'd never get anything done. I think, for all my failings, this method is sufficient to address the problem.
There isn't any sense of humour evident in your behaviour Lobo. You entertain yourself by acting like an asshole, then derive additional satisfaction from the ensuing attention/backlash. You're transparent. Just defending yourself and arguing for the sake of arguing is a waste of time, but because of your idiotic behaviour-negative attention-reward loop you can't get enough. The only people supporting you are people that are jealous of the Herkimer playerbase, have personal issues with them, or are just trying to be difficult for the sake of being difficult. Your contributions here are just part of something that is both ultimately pointless, and negative. Telling you to move on is reasonable. So shut the fuck up.
I hope this doesn't please you too much.
I agree with Ketan.
If you find it mattering to you what people write in the comment section here, it may be time to step back a bit.
I've actually been to Herkimer, and think it's a nice place, so Lobo's or anyone else's comments regarding the place, or the people who play T2T from there (who I've also found to be quite nice) don't really make sense to me. I also don't have a problem with his or anyone else's comments as long as they don't border on true hate.
fuck you lobo, just fuck you!
and thank you all who still have some sense of humour, again :)
That's because mobs aren't a majority in your country, tireless. Don't try to use schopenhauer against me, reducing or expanding my arguments to make them look ridiculous, modesty aside, i'm very good in this :)
i quite like lobo and his humour
And considering the meaning 'Herkie' has taken on, it'd be like saying 'I'm an idiot and as such think your constant reference to idiots is harassment'.
It all depends on whether the cited 'community' is logpage users/mudders as a whole or Herkies. In the former case Myrddin is correct; a handful of support plus a handful of opposition is no mandate at all. In the latter, Tireless will have to verify that anyone mailing him is in fact a Herkie and thus personally affected. Any valid Herkie who says they condone Lobo's autorating must be taken into account either way.
'If I receive 10 mudmails from distinct typists with accounts here informing me that they feel that his autorating is harassment I'll take that as a mandate from the community and ask him to stop'
I take it you just weren't clear enough, but in order for your argument against popular opinion to have any grounds, what you want is 'feel that his autorating is harassment against THEM'. You want 10 people who feel they are being harassed, not 10 people who feel someone else is being harassed.
Otherwise, your 10 peoples' opinions on the matter are no more meaningful than my opinion that Lobo's comments should remain.
I agree with Letina.
Democracy ought not to be used to crush the rights of the individual. That's why we don't allow mobs to execute people in my country.
But c'mon. Don't take it seriously guys. Let tireless do what he thinks it's right.
'I'm not going to let a popular contempt for a segment of the population (which is the cause of the situation in the first place) negate the protections universally promised by our rules.' could be shortened to 'no democracy'.
(That was re:Myrddin)
I disagree. It doesn't matter if 90% of the population thinks it's fine. It's not a popularity contest. The arbitrary minimum figure I presented was to determine if there is actually a community (as opposed to an individual seizing upon the opportunity to wield the situation as a weapon) which is being treated inconsistently with our non-harassment policy.
I'm going to wait 4 more days for input on the matter before making a decision. I'm not going to let a popular contempt for a segment of the population (which is the cause of the situation in the first place) negate the protections universally promised by our rules.
Ok guys, I'll reveal my secret now: It's NOT an auto-rater, I rate all herkie logs manually. Happy and surprised now? :P
Btw, some moderator please check Shardik's account, I think someone else is using it, he made a funny comment.
And thank you all who still have some sense of humour :)
Tireless, your system is flawed unless you also accept mails from people who feel Lobo's comments here are welcome (or at least shouldn't be gagged just because of whining). Each of these should take a value of -1 from your tally.
I'd like to be the first to say that Lobo's comments aren't harassment in the slightest and have no reason to be removed or banned. The fact that several completely different rules have been suggested as criteria for banning these comments lends itself to the conclusion that people are just clutching for straws to try to ban a behaviour that isn't against the rules of the logpage. Don't like the auto-rater? Cry sum more.
This isn't the first label applied to a segment of the playerbase. Klokers were named after the lab in Sweden that they played from, as were the Chalmers guys. There are a lot Solonites from Solon, Iowa. Serex and company managed to get themselves labeled as 'wu-tangas' through their mad appreciation of rap.
Of course, none of those people felt discriminated against, because they're all motherfucking badasses that were too busy destroying faces and having fun to get emotionally attached to some textual labels. Okay, maybe the guys from Solon weren't that busy being tough, but the rest of them were.
Maybe Lobo's perpetuation of the 'herkie' stereotype is only a bad thing if people from Herkimer can't make themselves seem scary and awesome. Calling someone a Kloker wasn't offensive; it was a declaration that they could probably kick the shit out of you, and if they couldn't, they had 4 friends nearby who could help.
To be fair, Herkimer is the home to many degenerates.
Lobo is simply just observing the obvious, then broadcasting it. It isn't harassment, no one is in any clear and immediate danger!
I think Lobo's specific use of the word 'Herkie' as a label has created an unnecessary bias against a specific player base. I'll agree many of the players from Herkimer can be fucktards, but I don't find the incident of fucktards per capitita to occur any more or less frequently than one would come across any other fucktard on the mud. Lobo's label has worked in creating the impression people from Herkimer are predisposed to such deficiencies and this only works to polarize any character he chooses to label 'Herkie' regardless of where they are actually from. Rating the log based on not liking an individual regardless of the quality of the log is one matter, and happens all the time. Rating the log to make some point toward the community in standardizing a bias against a group of people is another.
Lobo needs to stop.
Ironic twist of the Herk-hater becoming Herkish detected. Auto-loling.
Lobo this is harassment, (read:bullying) and Herkimer county cares.
Please stop.
Lobo for president!
Herk logo detected. Auto ignoring Lobo's comment.
Also, one may now mudmail Tireless for logpage business -- one no longer need to ferret out my alts (though if you already know them I'll still accept requests for logpage related issues on them).
Here's how I see it: One can put Lobo on ignore if they just think he's spammy. His comments are comments, not logs (and the spam bit was put in before the ignore feature). Complaints and unheeded requests that he stop are the only real way I can gauge how I ought to categorize his comments -- and as of yet I've had a lot of people say he's a dick (if I blocked people for being dicks we might as well just close the site) but I haven't heard any serious characterizations of his autorating as something which is illegal.
Now, I understand that for some of you you might feel like you've been doing your best to express that his autorating is a form of harassment to no avail, so you've either decided to start ignoring him or react in other ways, so I'll make this quantitative: If I receive 10 mudmails from distinct typists with accounts here informing me that they feel that his autorating is harassment I'll take that as a mandate from the community and ask him to stop, followed by warnings if he refuses. As a prerequisite, each person who mails me must have made some effort to request on the logpage that Lobo stop.
I understand that some or many of you might feel that this isn't really a fair method of addressing the situation. From my perspective it's not a really clear-cut case -- it's pretty damn annoying, but particularly since 'herkies' have used the term to self-identify I'm not really clear if it actually violates any rules. I probably should have checked this out sooner, but believe me when I say that I'm making an effort to enforce the rules universally and fairly (even if I don't always succeed.)
I kind of like Lobo's one line. Others do as well. Many of us don't want to be copycats, otherwise we'd be writing it too.
Here I always thought comments for supposed to pertain to the log itself and not someones clear hatred for a certain group of players
Ah, well it was difficult to see what you were getting at since you never actually finished your sentence after the parentheses.
That said, I don't think Lobo's 'auto-rating' can qualify as spamming. It's one comment per applicable log, which I doubt would fit any plausible definition of spam. Unless they plan to also start punishing people for posting things like 'nice fight' on a regular basis.
I wasn't particularly thinking about the harassment clause, clause 10 includes spamming, which given the lack of content in most of his posts covers it quite nicely.
Hint: being asked to stop something doesn't make the act harassment.
Tireless, before you say 'only a few people have asked him to stop' why not check to see how many people have simply added him to ignore as well.
Personally I couldn't care less if he wants to rate all of one set of logs 1. Him spamming every single comments thread with that pointless 1 liner (which adds nothing to the discussion and is basically our equivalent of the 'first post' or '+1 post count' crap you see on other forums).
Belial OWNED
Owned. Owned. Owned. Aether owned again.
Lobo is being obnoxious, but only a few people have even actually asked him to stop. If he crosses the line into harassment I'll talk to or warn him. I _very rarely_ ban someone for flaming. Harassment, yes. Flaming, not really.
Again 'Please read the entire log before you rate it. Rating logs at random will undermine the system. Thanks :).' <-Moderators
You ban people's commenting privileges for flaming (ratings are pointless) but Lobo is flaming in a different way?
for the amount of times you type i and wc i'm surprised it took you so long to rewield that cleaver =p (hope you remade that alias after this)
Defeats the point of the rating system -- yes. Defeats the purpose of the logpage -- no. I'll agree that it detracts a non-zero amount from the overall quality of the logpage, but the amount of value detracted < the total value of the logpage.
Annoying? Yeah. But you can deal and still enjoy the place. If you couldn't you wouldn't bother coming here, knowing that Lobo is going to keep it up.
kudo brubaker
Yeah, but Rating is the logpage and most everyone does it. Brubaker you should just keep your mouth shut. If rating wasn't one of the reasons for the logpage, then it wouldn't have been put there. People giving a rating of 1 regardless of the quaity of the log defeats the purpose of the rating feature.
Jesus Belial you are such a moron. Purpose of log page is to show logs, not rate them.
Yeah, but it takes away from the purpose of the logpage.
Belial, he does that because he secretly likes me. I feel loved when he does it.
Lobo that auto-rating crap is retarded. You should rate the logs based on if they are good or not, instead of based on who posts them.
Heh, bad mistype. :P
'Was fighting Tlaloc before after he attacked me in mordor.'
That's the only thing I read. Then I turned my auto-rater on.
herkie log detected. auto-rating...