For Tireless
Hehe :)
Orcs killed my parents in Mordor for a personal C :(
''Personal C' and 'I protect Mordor' are to justifications what 'orcs killed my parents' are to background stories. '
Best comment ever. LOL! Orcs killed my parents hahah!
'Personal C' and 'I protect Mordor' are to justifications what 'orcs killed my parents' are to background stories. Nobody buys it or really cares, beyond wondering why you even bother saying anything.
If the rewards outside of Mordor were nerfed considerably there would be a good reason to go into Mordor regardless of whether there was a ton of space outside or not. You can put a billion rooms of grid on the map and a quest in every room, but people will still congregate in Mordor if that's where the top end eq is.
It's not a matter of locking people in a small enough room that they have to run into each other. It's a matter of putting a limited amount of bait in areas where people can congregate instead of distributing it throughout the oversized area.
The problem with the current situation is, an enormous amount of mordor was coded when more people would actually enter it and were playing on the towers. And when there was much less space on the game in terms of areas. Now, you can completely avoid mordor unless you are old school in which you must enter it once in a great while for sentimental reasons. I think making the mordor general area harder to access is not the right solution. I think making MM/MT and BDT way harder are the right choices. It would be sad to restrict the questing in an area that PVP is expected.
well you bothered anyway Tireless, so kudos for being a fighter. I think I pretty much agree with you here. Though one problem is that with such a minimal playerbase there's a group of players who basically have free access to that Mordor EQ without having to worry about any kind of interference - and I think here is where the 'character seperation' gets really out of line. Not only will they allow their friends to obtain the EQ, but they will actively assist their friends and actively prevent other people from interfering.
Also, Formid, BD is one of the easiest questing areas in the game now. It has 3 adjacent healers, the entrance is a guaranteed break, nobody in the tower sees through disguise. The 'sorcerer blocks exit' was removed years ago.
Also, without going into details, there is no possibility of MM gates resetting while the player is questing.
Mordor eq doesn't need to be buffed - non-Mordor eq needs to be debuffed. I was working on this project during my tenure in Valinor, but it was an enormous project and I needed collaboration from someone else on what I viewed as a prerequisite step 1 which I never got.
There's supposed to be a clear graduation of weapon power: Non-mordor weapons, Mordor weapons/semi uniques, Mordor semi uniques, uniques. eg a normal Mordor weapon should be analogous to a non-mordor semi (axe of Gondor and Mori are comparable to prod, though they're two handed...), Mordor semi-uniques should be better than anything outside of Mordor (cleaver and fang are better than anything outside of Mordor aside from uniques) and uniques should beat all (Blackie, Aiglos, whip, tridents, storm bow are still the best weapons in the game). This order is clearly not being followed with new weapons because the newest weapons always need to be the best weapons. All things need is a little weapons redux outside of Mordor.
Why even bother guys, even if you present good ideas you're wasting time on the assumption Valinor gives a shit about the state of the game or the opinions of its players (shit I'm a clever drunk aren't I?)
I actually forgot reading Formid's reply that I didn't actually respond to his first post (I closed the browser before I posted), it seems Tireless said near enough to what I was going to to get the expected response.
As far as MM gates go, last thing I heard about them was that they were way overbalanced and needed a definite debuffing (from Galuf). Don't know if it actually happened, I never bothered trying, far easier to just play a demonic or a servant right? (SENSE A PROBLEM?)
As for Mordor EQ...I guess they expanded beyond it. I'd love to see SS be worth its weight other than the awesomeness of 'blasting <x> into tomorrow' but I doubt it's going to happen. People are kind of right in that EQ is overbalanced these days - there's so many weapons and so few players, you spend 300 gold healing for a quest and the weapon will only sell for 150. Basically there is not the playerbase there used to be and I doubt it will ever fix itself, but current circumstances certainly don't help the situation.
With MM, I'd say make it like old MT was, you can get into the place solo, you can even get up to the top solo, it'll just take you a while.
The reason that noone storms the gates is that all the powerplayers are either serving, evil or keeping a very low alignment via aligh quests. They don't need to bash them to get the cool eq in there. What this is supposed to do is enforce at least some theme on them.
I dunno what kind of loot (and how good) is in MM (or even if you have to kill evils in there to get it), however there should be a mix, some great stuff, but you have to kill evils, and some great stuff but it's quest based (even multiple ways maybe?).
Make getting in based upon killing in MM/Mordor as well as alignment and then add a 'back entrance' which is a pain (takes ep/not aliasable easily, similar to the lair for mordor normal) to get through (I think that solo players should be allowed, and even encouraged to go to mordor, just that it shouldn't be easy).
Lose the mordor password (with no EP loss on the lair stairs anymore it's a trifle to run that, it'd also give people more of a reason to kill shelob even though she's relatively easy to avoid).
The guards I'm suggesting shouldn't be like bashing the gates or anything, they should only block one way (just in case they do respawn when you're inside, even though there is a bunch of code around which allows you to prevent room reset when inside a quest. Ask glaurung, I believe he was the one who gave the stuff I needed for my newbie quest) relatively easy for a maxxed player with decent normal EQ to kill solo, it's more to stop those run in, get ice staff/bands/fang run out stuff, make it take at a minimum 5-10 mins to get the better eq.
Then buff CRS, Silent Slayer, Claw, OSS and I'm sure there are others (maybe even prod).
Silent slayer is a bitch to get anyway and should be buffed. I would possibly suggest some alterations/don't changes to BD to make it 'easier' (yeah I said it) for people who aren't <immoral to get out after questing (ie the crowds at the start shouldn't auto attack, or remove the NPC which prevents exit). This would allow people to get some of the nicer EQ in BD which rarely gets seen (Black Steel Longsword, Twin Bladed Staff etc). I'd also suggest removing the bong from the tower.
Given that some of the stuff in BD takes a lot longer than 10 mins to quest I'd maybe suggest increasing that scout thing I suggested to minimum 10 minutes (and I'm still not sure about that, I'd put the other changes in first and see if mordor eq became too easy/commonplace without people being caught and killed).
None of this stuff is particularly onerous to code (a couple of weeks plus some QC time for a solo ainur who's confident enough with the mudcode to add). It could even be released in stages. Address one quest/piece at a time, add the new guards buff the equipment and test. Some quests wouldnt' even need the guards, stuff like CRS I think requires a whole bunch of kills anyways.
A few things have changed since you played, Formid:
You don't lose benefits by killing in MT any more. Mass murderers can get into the citadel as long as they can disguise angelic.
Instead, in all towns, if you have a kill history there, the services cost more and the shops pay less. Ooh.
MM evaluates based on true align for the gates -- villainous and better cannot enter unless they storm the gates, which can be done pretty easily with a party of 2 or 3.
The (patently false) claim regarding password is that if it were removed that Mordor would be a ghost town - nobody would quest there.
Once morals get into MM, they can't use services and I think they might get autoattacked. Not sure, though. To my knowledge, gates have only been stormed a few times since they were put in, and never in recent memory.
Valinor seems morally opposed to making anywhere in the game challenging, preferring instead what I call the 'Candyland approach'. Every player, newbie or not, should be equally able to enjoy every area. Don't scale the difficulty of being somewhere, only scale the difficulty of completing tasks there. Don't account for skill, only account for stats.
MM and other places in mordor should be like Minas Tirith and a few other areas.
If you kill/steal in mordor (from NPC's) you lose all the benefits you have there for your race etc.
It used to be that by not killing in mordor you could go in there through the gates fine, if you had killed in there you had to wait 2 RL weeks to go through the gates again. The other option was to either bash the gates, or later on to run the lair.
I remember my first few entries into mordor were in gates bash parties, it was exciting. It used to be an event, and you'd stick together because it was likely you'd get attacked.
Now it's stupidly easy to get into mordor using the password, so people don't care abotu dashing into mordor quickly and the moment they hit any resistance they just dissappear (knowing they can get back in within 5 seconds of wanting to).
Putting that password in the gate for everyone lowered the value of everything in mordor (mordor EQ being too easy to get is the ainur justification I heard a while back for not buffing mordor EQ to current standards).
They should overhaul all mordor EQ and revisit the whole zone, put a bunch of blocking guards (with relatively slow respawn times, to allow some actual questing to happen, but slows it down for someone just dashign in to pick up something quickly) around all the major quests, every thematically evil NPC in mordor auto attacks you if you have kills on your record (lets say in the last 2 weeks), you can't use any of the thematically evil healers (there is at least one you would then be able to use).
It's near impossible for an ER to get up to the top of Minas Tirith to quest, (having not fully explored MM I'm assuming the next piece of information), make it that hard for morals to do the same to MM.
This would make Mordor a hard place to quest in, if you kill there you lose all the benefits. Stuff like the draining road/barad dur would drain 'if (moral || kills > 0 ) then drain;'. SO the moment you run into mordor to kill you get maybe 1 quest done and then the whole place starts auto attacking.
God forbid if you ran into Milentije's room with mordor kills on your record by yourself!
That would make Mordor harder, justify buffing mordor equipment, and make protecting mordor easier (people would have to spend longer in there to get the equipment, or go in with bigger parties).
I'd say remove the password as well.
If it was still too easy and they want more PvP interaction in mordor, create an NPC you can stand near who gets reports of NPC kills in mordor some ~5 minutes after they happen where you can 'scout' for kills like the old BP days (with a 5 minute lag, so you do get 5 minutes from killing your first NPC to complete your quest before people can scout and know you're in there). It could work like
0 mins: scout
0 mins: 'There have been no corpses reported recently'
1 mins: Player kills orc
5 mins: scout
5 mins: 'There have been no corpses reported recently'
6 mins: scout
6 mins: 'There have been some corpses reported recently'
10 mins: scout
10 mins: 'There have been some corpses reported recently'
11 mins: scout
11 mins: 'There have been no corpses reported recently'
(no full numbers at all, just a boolean corpses/no corpses).
if you want to make completing 1 quest a little easier, then increase the time to 10 minutes, harder, reduce it.
Now mordor is scary again!
If i'm posing as a mordor protector I expect those who consider 'emselves my friends to respect my position and not do so when i'm online.
Sure some evil assassins ignore their friends in Mordor on SOME occasions... but letting them rape it every day while you're on and/or for 10h at a time, that's just kind of retarded.
I can't really offer a retort to that, Myrddin, and I'm pretty sure you know why. For the purposes of the logpage, I think we're going to have to let it go at us disagreeing.
His point is that everyone who has ever played a servant or er assassasin is guilty of turning a blind eye to friends. I do it with Latty, for example.
That doesn't make him any less bashable though!
Also I think I'm mostly innocent of that. I wouldn't be dumb enough to play a character who 'had' to kill a typist-friend if I knew they were in that position.
I'll revise my argument. Nobody here who has ever bashed on Cruice for his practices in protecting Mordor is innocent of doing the same type of thing.
What about asians? Sheesh, talk about racist.
Everybody at my high school was white, but it'd be naive of me to think that means that there's no such thing as a black person. The logpage isn't exactly the prize pick of character seperaters. I guess that's part of what you're saying - but the pot calling the kettle black doesn't make the kettle purple.
I have a large body of anecdotal evidence. I've watched the majority of the people on this logpage in Arda for years. Everybody here that I've seen in the game isn't IC 100% of the time and, in almost every case, allows their friends to get away with things they'd not tolerate from their enemies.
Your 'step up to the plate' bit was clearly an appeal to a cast-the-first-stone argument (or else you just really wanted to hear lots of peoples' character stories, haha). Your whole argument about being ic 100% was based on the conclusion that nobody does it. Your evidence...the fact that you don't yet have any anecdotal evidence to the contrary. 'God exists - prove he doesn't' type thing. This is clearly letting your conclusion guide your argument. Hell you didn't even have an argument, what you had was an opinion.
The 'full of shit' comment referred exclusively to the statement already made: The value judgment of the relative worth of being IC 100% of the time (ALWAYS protecting Mordor will full prejudice) versus giving preferential treatment to your friends (turning a blind eye to their presence in Mordor). If you're so IC you can't recognize your friends as a typist you may as well be an NPC.
You're insinuating that I am being hypocritical, but I don't think you've satisfied the requirements for such a claim. I make generalizations which you think are too broad and claim that you've done something inappropriate by letting your conclusions guide your arguments. This is not hypocracy. I make broad observations which I feel are absolutely justified; you make no observations but those which support your conclusions. We are not performing the same category of behaviour.
Mine made more sense though, since the 'haven't read yet' one came over half an hour before the others. Was busy, you know, having a life.
GG
I can multiple post too.
Haven't read your whole comment yet Myrddin, but enough to tell you you're full of shit.
And even if everyone did play like that, being a hypocrite isn't dependent on the person calling you one not being one.
alt in Mordor*
'You're all welcome to disagree with me, but you'd be full of shit'
Sorry I'd only glanced at this and thought you'd said something about telling you you're full of shit. Though having read your comment in full it seems you've been herkified somewhere along the lines.
You've just made a grossly generalized comment about how EVERY PERSON HERE plays the game, based on very little actual evidence, and suggested that anyone who 'disagrees' is full of shit.
You then tell ME 'And you're not bothering to examine evidence to come to a conclusion: you've come to your conclusion and seek evidence to support it.' That's even worse hypocrisy than what Cruice is guilty of.
For the record, my alt has killed Gambrinus' former alt in Mordor, Gambrinus has attacked my alt in order. So don't lump everyone in your glass house brigade out of your own sense of self-importance.
And you're not bothering to examine evidence to come to a conclusion: you've come to your conclusion and seek evidence to support it.
Haven't read your whole comment yet Tireless, but enough to tell you you're full of shit.
Cruice, don't you really mind your balls are always covered with saliva?
There's more than the mercenary claim, but that would definitely be the most common. Theme shouldn't even be considered with Mordor anyway, not unless we're arguing to put it in complete lockdown.
(To be clear, I strongly disagree with Pounder, but respect his alternative perspective. He provides a legitimate (though contrasting) reading of the situation, unlike the majority of people who have been performing the verbal equivalent of beating themselves in the face until their opponents agree with them.)
The benefit of being the protector of Mordor is that you can offer benefits to your friends. Is it breaking character? Sure. But being IC to the exclusion of being a typist isn't good in any way. He's being an IC protector of Mordor for most people and gives his friends a wink and a nod -- if he operated any other way he would be deserving of all the shit you're giving him.
You're all welcome to disagree with me, but you'd be full of shit. Most of you don't even make the efforts to generate or practice a character, and Cruice has done that much.
Before you want to criticize Cruice for not being a perfect little Milentije clone, step up to the plate. Tell me about your character and his or her characteristics. Tell me what he or she does and how you never depart from those characteristics. I'll wager the only character anyone will be able to claim any fealty to will be the 'Mercenary killing any and everyone who crosses my path because I'm a greedy bastard with no allegiance' -- A.K.A. a cop-out defending the fact that you don't have any character development and have no IC characteristics at all.
I recognize the attraction of trying to vilify everyone on the other side of a conflict; I've done it myself. Some of the 'Herks' deserve it in spades. Without trying I'm sure you can think up at least three of them that have severe mental illnesses of one sort or another. Cruice, however, is as good or better than most or any of you in virtually any category. He has struck a solid balance between the game and real life, he approaches it with a healthy attitude, engages in and enjoys a well-rounded version of the game, talks trash very little in the relative sense, and isn't batshit insane. You could all take a lesson from him.
Exactly, not to mention, you can be funny about it and still make them leave. Let's just face the fact, Cruice has no form of RP in the game. There is nothing wrong with this, Mordor SHOULD be dangerous and people should be expected to be killed there. However, anyone who says they protect there are stupid/retarded/mentally crippled/liars (you choose which one its multiple choice), and just want free kills. It should be used as an arena. And Evils should NOT have an advantage like they do currently (make MM fucking theme based if you want to make things like that). Just my take, back in the day when it was like that, it was awesome sauce and I had people like Kalathen coming in with another big name (at the time) and trying to smoke me with whip and I think globe (not sure mels was even in at the time). We had no expectations that we were not going to be attacked in mordor. :)
I think his point is that if you wanted to truly defend Mordor you wouldn't pick and choose who you attack and instead would at least make an attempt to run everybody out.
Lucky get off your high horse.
I wasn't talking shit about someone trying to do something I'm not. I know mordor, I know the brief descriptions of rooms. I don't need a mapper to tell me that. I was poking fun at Gambrinus not knowing where the captain's chamber is in Mordor.
Your arguements are making less sense with every comment. At least Urban's got his point across, although incorrect, his point was made.
Your mom started acting all smart last night, so I had to smack that hoe until she went and made me a sammich.
Just when I think there is hope for you after you make a mom joke on a different log, you go and act all smart again.
Erm, I don't think that works.
'Don't talk shit about people trying to do something you don't do yourself'
I don't talk shit like I'm completely out of touch with any definition of reality. Quiauh apparently tries to do so. I'm not allowed to talk shit about that?
I don't use a mapper. Certain individuals certainly try to do so. I'm not allowed to talk shit about that?
And finally...
I don't age 10d/month. At least two someones I don't like do. You're saying that Urban is saying I can't trash talk that?
I think I know what you're trying to get at, but what you said didn't communicate that :P
In case Urban's explanation wasn't quite simple enough for you:
Don't talk shit about other people trying to do something you don't do yourself.
I assume he's calling you a hypocrite because you 'protect Mordor' but don't 'protect Mordor' when it's your friends that are inside raping the place.
I'm not a hypocrite, I've never attacked my friends in mordor. The day I do, would then make me a hypocrite.
Tireless, batting 1.000 is basically like hitting the ball at 100% of the time without getting anyone out (which in PRO's is virtually impossible and to give you an idea, typically the best batters are .340-.400 tops). So by him saying its batting 1.000, its like saying that line has never failed at doing something in its history.
Ah, I guess it makes the titles of this Tolkien game much more acceptable when you understand them in the context of 1994 mob films.
what in the world is a SotCoU ?
Someone will have to explain to me how baseball works. It's used in so many analogies and is supposed to be my nation's pastime, but I don't understand it, its appeal or its stats at all :(
The only way that it bothers me is that it strikes on one of my biggest pet peeves which is hypocrisy... which you and your friends have in spades.
I love that you used a line that your buddy said in a conversation that revealed him to be even more of a retarded little tool than most of us already knew he was. It seems to have worked its magic two times now at least.
'Cry some more' is batting 1.000
And no cruice, you will try to argue you were being funny. But unfortunately in this case, you were just being completely lame.
And there goes in one fell swooop any respect I had for Cruice. I guess the ape doesn't fall far from the banana tree.
Does it bother you that much I choose not to kill my friends? I'm sure even yourself may have a friend, I choose not to treat mine shitty. I don't know about you.
So in the words of one of my friends. 'CRY SOME MORE?'
Feel free to debate the fact that you give fuck-all rp care when your friends rape Mordor, Cru.
It is more compelling than insulting others who actually give a fuck.
*downloads Leon*?
My buddy had me watch the movie as an object lesson. His sister (who is... not in the appropriate age bracket for me) was getting kind of attached to me and he wanted to illustrate the point that girls at that age get attached regardless of boundaries set up by the older guy.
Moral aside, the movie was very well done.
Cleaner was a fucking great title, and Leon is an awesome movie.
Lucky, don't be so bitter. It's bad for your health.
'Cleaner' is a reference to a lot of western European media, such as 'Leon' (a 1994 Jean Reno film) in which it is a term used synonymously with 'Hitman' (usually working for the mob). It's a great title, but it requires context.
also for the record there are far better titles for a character called Dexter. Old level 17 'Cleaner' would've been great (only decent application of that terrible terrible title unless your character was called Janitor or Willy though imo)
I'd make one called Herk the dunedain legally braindead.
Namechange of Finnegan, Tire. His title is 'Murderer.'
Super original huh?
I'm gonna make one called Neil Armstrong the dunedain Astronaut.
Dexter?
kind*
i admire cruice's staunch refusal to protect mordor against dexter and co. how king
'Must be tough protecting mordor when you don't know it.'
I'd say it is much harder to protect Mordor when you allow your friends to rape it for hours and auction the eq with no repercussions.
At least they made a semblance of an attempt.
get lost in udun hahaha thats gotta own.
This log made me smile.
nice anti huntbreak trigs by everybody there
It's actually 18256.
Captain's chamber is room 35825. Duh.
What a nub Gambrinus, can't you even type captain's chamber into your mapper? You mustn't know Mordor at all.
ooh Monet = new herk mom? :)
Monet punishes you for disobeying the Dark Lord!
SotCoU has disobeyed the dark lord! :S
Evidently not.
Party say from Gambrinus: captain's chamber?
-=HP:230 EP:217=- Party say from Gambrinus: which one is that?
Must be tough protecting mordor when you don't know it.
post a log featuring me :(