How to nick a character... power hungry style!
sorry....im way behind on that one *blushes*
Same still applies though, bastardisation of the mother tongue :(
Date: 13. Nov, 2003, 13:41:17 By: Delgaur
am i missing something, but anyone who is good at english (No, not me!) would normaly Capatalise the first letter of a name.
So, how come if has been this many years for such a bug to occur?
This is because it is a US MUD...more bastardisation of the mother tongue *grumbles some more*
I don't think it makes much of a difference. I rather think work should be done in the area of making quests harder to alias and bot and otherwise automate. This would also make them more fun; right now, I think most of them are quite boring once you tried them.
The somewhat difficulty in maxing is more putting your self up to being bored for long enough ;-). Almost at least. And I certainly don't think it should be like that. Regardless of whether ot not botting is made legal by the way. A much (much much) slower advancement coupled with a more complex and involved (i.e. more than just gold and kill-exp) leveling would be good :-).
Botting is and should remain illegal so that it remains somewhat difficult to max a character and so that each maxed 19 char represent at least a 2 day time investment rather than some cpu cycles at night you dont care about. Otherwise we'll have 100's of maxed assassin most of them with little to no skill talking crap and trying to kill anything that moves...
As for those absurd hints that I somehow blocked Teclis for talking about his own nuke... try and think it through. Does it make sense? I don't know the guy, I don't know or care who he is. Why would I stop him from talking about his nuke? You guys always have to see conspiracies where there are none! Try applying Occam's razor here for a moment.
The //simple// reason Teclis was blocked, was for //flaming//, nothing more. I treat everyone the same here, like it or not.
I think that contrary to popular belief, it really isn't much faster to make gold botting. Probably even slower. True, you can do it for a longer time. Also true, Paazin, it takes away some of the human aspect. But this is also done with many other things..
take quest aliases. Some people alias simple quests, some people alias even chains of simple quests (i.e. freebies), and just fire that alias now and then. Not illegal, but just as frustrating for those trying to work those quests out, and giving them an advantage. If botting were legal would it give botters an advantage? Probably to some extend, but so does skill in many other areas. People who bot are obviously not interested in that part of the game that is leveling (back) up. Others are, and they don't bot. As for bug abuse, I absolutely think it should be illegal. Otherwise, where do we draw the line? Hacking the server :-). Botting is a feature akin to triggers and aliases on the other hand.
Yeah, let me add my 2cts too. Fearon stole Blackfang from me add Laryn's, followed by two coversteals. No ranger was able to investigate although it was obviously him; reported three times, got three false reports back, and the next day: 'I told you it wasn't me!' ... right.
Thrfak lay low on the flamming before you go psycho :p
he stole my virginity, cathal :((
I just found the PayPal reciept for the donation...it was for $150. And I did mention my characters name.
$150. Thats a lot of money to me. I think that shows I care. I sweated for that money. I have complained about the lack of recognition before, but apparently I an not the only one who doesn't care.
I don't mean to imply that I havn't botted. Years and years ago I had a mirkwood bot that was complete crap. I had to sit and watch it work. It messed up all the time.
Are you answerable to anyone here Draug? If you aren't, then have you asked yourself if you should be?
I have been reported for botting more than anone you know Draug? Surely that is a bit of an exaggeration. Previous to that nuke I was nuked for botting ONCE. And I proved then I WASN'T botting and was reinstated. This is the first time I have ever even been questioned by an the immortals about botting.
If I am being reported for botting please tell me!
And another thing...I sent in a large donation while the fund drive was on. And my name was never placed on the plaque...what is up with that.
...take your gay remarks some where where they are wanted.
Hey, Thrfak, buddy, quit being a hypocrite. I know you'll probably tell me the same thing, that nobody cares what I say, so I'll save you the trouble :) I know nobody does :)
if you want to play a free good quality game, check out this mmorpg at www.muonline.com. Free, beautiful graphics and always-responsive-game masters. Its a must try.
If I can bot (and I'm good at it), who cares if I die? I can just make it up again by pressing a few buttons!
Not gonna spend the time to read all your queer comments about teclis and fearon being stupid, cause I bet half of you didn't even now them. If you didn't know them take your gay remarks some where where they are wanted. Anywho, teclis, get on msn more or something! Damn, there was so much more I wanted to teach you but so much I did teach you, guess there goes our wizard clan named Strikers :P huh? :) whee, uh yeah get on msn more or something dude
Ah fuck it. It was a free game that was fun... that's all
Might start doing sommit usefull with my time now like my uni course.
Brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'Capital punishment' though
Farewell arda
<last post>
*Teclis says*
Can't block me from this Nic.... sorry.
Maybe see you all again in a little while...
Inna bit! Take care ......
Btw, It was alright in the morning, We GoT WaStEd!:)
lol teclis...you still owe me my 800 (:
be back man...I still wana be your apprentice
I'm glad you're gone.
Bug abusing pieces of crap.
You're blocking someone for responding angrily to that? Hell...
I believe the reason why botting is a no-no is because the same reason why lots of other online games really don't like it. It takes away the human aspect of the game and can makes it a much more dead experience, 'cheapening' it.
The reason why many of these things are illegal: bug abusing, multiplaying, botting, isn't because the Ainur feel like having a power trip and punishing people. It's because they give a temporary benefit to the one person, while making every other honest player suffer for it.
That said, rules in effect should be followed. But there can be good reasons to discuss them all the same.
Did I mention that I think botting should be legal? I think I did on towers on the comm... Mithgil was against it :-p. I still haven't heard some very good arguments to why it's illegal, given that it's hardly a challenge to get the gold you would otherwise need manually. It's just boring, and with towers once you are playing the 'top game', the way up to level 19 is just something to get over with.
Why force people to be bored as a price for playing the 'top game'?. Any player really //interested// in the game with all its quests and areas etc. and playing for the first or one of the first times, would hardly bot his way to level 19. And even if he did, so what? It's his problem if he's missing out on fun. Why do the Ainur need to hold players by their hands?
There are several other reasons, but I am too tired to put it here. Should go in a forum post anyway *cough* :-p.
This is one of the reasons i dont play here anymore.
'I've used the same alias' and triggers since i began.'
But up until very recently, if you capitalized it did not work... Obviously these guys knew they were bug abusing, or their story wouldn't be riddled with shit.
If you don't like that sometimes bugs happen here at this free game, get over it. Quickly :P
Those of you who are posting here with names you can 'legend' are examples of people who don't go out and abuse such bugs.
The rest of you, well, there's a reason you keep getting deleted.
Leto, you get reported for botting more than anyone else I know. You still haven't learned to stop doing it, guess you never will. One day you'll just get banned for it, and then you'll have bigger problems than the fact that you don't care enough to stop having your client play your game for you while you work, sleep, or whatever.
Surely there are many Ainur who are mediocre coders, and only few who are really good. In a complex and old system such as this, errors are easy to introduce inadvertently.
If we take Linux as an analogy, the coders here are dependant on the (expert) users to find bugs and report or fix them. The situation is of course slghtly different here, but still.
But after reading all these comments I can say that Teclis and Fearon are not only the BEST THIEVES in ARDA, but obviously the co-founders of ARDA's MENSA chapter.
Couple years ago I pked someone with Stryper and got the third degree on why it wasn't appearing on the lawsys logs, but back in those days some admin-in-power were more understanding that when they fuck up the code, not always is the player who arbitrarily discovers it a massive bug abuser.
Ignorance, I doubt someone working in the guilds domain his entire non-newbie life is doing much to change daemons.
-otoron
Zelindo, I wasn't aware Azarael was actually a thief. Obviously, in the short time he's dropped assassin and switched to thief he made quite an impression on you. :P
Are ainur who write bad code ever held responsible? I mean, something this simple should NEVER have caused a bug. Blame Scatha.
Zelindo, 110 influence is nothin, we got a cloak, and can wear 2 amulets, plus potion for WAY higher stealth than that, and awareness ring and potion, we're not going to leave many traces. Thieves are given these tools because we're thieves, the ones of us that want to be good and are willing to put forth the effort will someday get things down, and hardly ever be cought. These guys wherent the best ever, thats for sure, imo thieves should be quiet, sure i talk it up, in general, but you'll never hear me running around yelling guess what i just did, or guess what i just got away with, Ash does it, but he's got cash to spare, and likes to just be a bastard for the hell of it, that dosnt make him a good thief, but the fact that if he wants to he's going to get away with thefts more than 50% of the time when he tries to, and leave no traces, that makes him a 'good' thief.
I did read all the comments Hobbe, I must have missed it. Sorry if that bothers you ;-). But thanks for clarifying Hobbe and Spansh :-).
I don't agree 100% with Gordo that bug abuse should be free since the Ainur ought to just fix the bugs. If you read how the law-sys is supposed to work, it doesn't seem like you can get off the hook by using a capital name. Also, it clearly makes no sense if it were like that. So doing it by accident, or even doing it 3 times is ok if you are not aware of it. It's the //intend// that counts here. If you abuse a bug, i.e. exploit it deliberately, of course you should be punished for it.
Oh and Gordo, about blocking Teclis, it has nothing to do with not allowing him to talk about his own nuke. Rules are rules, and what he happened to be talking about doesn't make a difference. Grimscar hardly flamed; I agree with him that bug abuse should be dealt with, and I also find it hard to believe that you wouldn't know if it was done several times. But then again, we will never really find out for sure.
Cya later Fearon... Gonna miss ya.
Yeah Zelindo but you are usually asking payment for it ;)
And remember, ... we only got Teclis side of the story. :)
Are ainur punishment happy? This lame piece of shit ainur is:
Scatha tells you: I will have issues if you don't quit your little hate crusade against me
You tell Scatha: it won't be an issue if you don't do retarded stuff liek that.
Your ability to speak has been revoked for 1 hour.
I hope waste comes back, it was funny to see how much he would do just to touch whip.:) Are ainur always in the right, i doubt it, and in this logs case i would say draugluin problably saw something he recognized as cheating. Maybe the nuke all characters policy isn't the fairest one out there?
i most always investigate specific thieves, -especially- when i can't get a name. true rangers who do their jobs should :P
i'll also rate this log a 1, mainly because teclis called himself and fearon 'the best thieves' in arda, or whatever. hahaha. bullshit. go take some lessons from tanar, or ash, or azarael. newbies.
LOL .. and it seems like all your victims went to me for an investigate .. I was wondering what the heck was going on - I *always* get a name if the crime is recent enough. We were thinking there was some kind of bug and one of the victims talked to an Ainur.
And no, rangers are not going to bother investigating specific thieves most of the time unless the victim wants to put in the effort to set that up .. I'm usually doing someone I don't even know a favor so I am not all that motivated ;)
yes, trempk. and i was online when the ss was stolen from caber, and i was helping him. the investigate on him read 'The crime was too long ago, all traces are gone.' i also investigated fearon for robbing caber, and it gave a negative, 'You are positive that Fearon is innocent.' and when i brought it up to an ainur, i was told it was not a bug, but that it was just a more skilled thief than i was a skilled ranger (with my 110 influence.)
I am willing to bet a lot of money that Draugluin isn't a romantic.
Here we are guilty untill proven innocent. I had a low-level char nuked recently because I missed '2' tells from scatha while I was leveling up. Those tells consisted of 'Hi' and 'Hello?'. Apparently I was botting. But the truth is that I had the zMud trigger #TRIGGER {^(*) has died.} {#BEEP}. So that I could work and farm gold at the same time. But because I lost 2 little tells in the mist of all that battle spam I was nuked. Scatha didn't even reply to a tell I sent very shortly afterwards (He was in the middle of a mail...probably to Draug about me).
Don't they realize it is better to let a guilty man off than to condemn an innocent one. (The essence of Romanticism)
Hmm, this is weird because I steal in the exact same fashion as these guys do, but I get caught and I get reported...
Delgaur, as someone who has been known to use proper capitalization during intense rounds of comm trivia and stuff, I can say that not even I use a capital letter when I'm going to steal something. And why? Because it's about speed and 100% accuracy when you're going to make a theft. Though maybe it's also some weird psychological thing, where I only use a lowercase letter because I know nobody's going to see what I typed...
ah thanks lotraz - never knew of that change.
I still user trigger Delgaur todo hunt delgaur :p
A thief clan by the name of 'Varas', now that's original.
Oh, and rangers can investigate specific thieves for crimes, so even if you get a cover theft, if the ranger is good and you are still logged on, he should be able to find you out if he puts in a little effort.
Well, it seems to me that they are just complete dumbasses. If they truly believed that cover thefts prevented them from being able to be reported, then how were they to know?
Del, I wouldn't say they're new to the game, they just still speak and write correctly, not using 'ya, cya' and such stuff, the right spelling is to write the name with capital letter.
I admit that this almost reaches Waste's nuke for stupidity. Maybe not almost, maybe it reached it. I'm sure that Teclis had really no idea, I wouldn't have any too, how could such STUPID thing be the reason?? I just have no words to describe it, so I'm stopping here..
It is a new thing they introduced a little while back. Previously you could only use commands with names in it using small letters. Forinstance: trigger Delgaur todo hunt delgaur
They did an undocumented change to this though, which allowed trigger Delgaur todo hunt Delgaur
The bug was probably introcuded by then. My _guess_ is that it was either Castamir or Draugluin coding this change since they were the makers at the time.
am i missing something, but anyone who is good at english (No, not me!) would normaly Capatalise the first letter of a name.
So, how come if has been this many years for such a bug to occur?
I say somone upstairs has changed some code, and messed something up.
If i was new to the game, i know i would be tryping steal sword from Delgaur. Becuase capital D is the correct way to spell any name.
Take a look at the FIRST coment on this log. Example right there.
Del.
Gordo, the ainur do have a method for players to work with us when trying to fix bugs, in fact we have several.
1. If you discover a bug, type bug and then write out your report, it will get seen to (especially serious bugs, like this one) very quickly.
2. We have a whole army of playertesters, who help us to find bugs before things get released to the general public.
3. If you think something might be wrong, but you aren't sure it's a bug, talk to an ainur if they are online, they are usually very responsive and it's obvious that someone did that in this case, as glaurung was already looking into it.
I'm not going to comment on whether the nukes were wrong or right, it's not my place, but as far as I know no sitebans were put in place, and after a month, they'll be able to recreate the characters which were nuked anyways.
What they mean is that through abusing this bug, it at least felt like they were good
Totaly gay. Best thieves in Arda, i think not, IMO The good old clan Varas was the best bunch of thieves around. An individual is quite hard to name.. But Teclis and Fearon? sure sure, what ever
Who is Teclis and this Fearon guy? I have honestly never seen them before in my couple years here.... So how could they be the best?
O'well, quit fretting about it... Your gone, take it like a man or whatever. You cheated, your gone, Bye bye.
Draugluin, have you guys change this bug then? :P
Oh and Nic 'Bug abusing pieces of crap.' ... I'd say Grimscar started the flaming, but if you dont wanna let Teclis talk about his own nuking, be my guest...
Oh, and for all of you Ainur who are reading these comments, don't think I agree that you did your jobs correctly. I am so tired of seeing people nuked because of issues that the Ainur should have total control over. Seriously, if I could backstab someone by typing thier name with a capital letter and get away with it, that is entirely the Ainur's fault. You'd think that when this game was made so many years ago that you could target people with or without a capital lettered name, but oh no, that appears to be a bug now. And how in the hell did they deserve to get ALL of thier characters nuked for this, I've seen people do much worse and only get that character nuked. Lets not forget to mention the endless healing bucket bug that the ainur knew about for many months that was never fixed, but still seemed to get huge groups of people nuked at once. Maybe instead of trying to get a hard on by being a hard ass, you guys should try coming up with a way for the mortals to work with you to fix these rediculous problems that keep occouring. I have half a mind to drop all the work I've put into my character and immort just to see how hard you guys actually have it. Maybe then I can understand how all this is necessary, but for now, I dont, so if you think you can open my eyes and shed some light on the subject, please do so.
Nicu if you would read all comment you would find out that the bug was that if you use trigger picks todo steal item from Player instead of player. If you use there first letter with captial then somehow they can't trace the crime back to teclis. And not even a judge could find out that it was teclis so if he use trigger to steal and target with BIG LETTERS he can't be reported
The bug was that if you stole from someone using the capitalised version of their name, then it wasn't logged (by the mud) at all, hence no investigations, and no reports.
Right.. But Teclis, I have to put you on ice a few days here as well, for that comment to Grimscar. He's perfectly entitled to think that cheaters should be nuked without you flaming him.
So what was this bug.. was it that you can't be reported if someone else steals after you?? (sounds ridiculous).. or.. what? :-p. The quicker it gets exposed, the quicker the Ainur will feel pushed to fix it ;-)... that's at least how it usually works with bugs in Linux and other open OS'es.
(Oh and, 'holier' is correct according to my dictionary, Lotraz).
First of Teclis, it seems to me that Grimscar by far are more wanted here than you are. At least he still got his characters, ... unlike you, Harharhar.
Secondly, although I rarely agree with the nuking policy of this game (especially when nukes are for language 'violations'), let us try to turn this situation around a bit. How would the 'holier than thou' (sp?) Trempk have sounded in this case:
Marthoan the Warrior runs around killing alot of people. He does this by using all kind of tactics, some even border line. A few weeks later, Rauko finally catches up with Marthoan and the nukes starts rolling in.
Would the know-better Trempk go: '...isn't right'.
Or would he go: About damn time! Stupid cheaters, nuke'em all!
But anyways, who cares, give or take a few weeks and Teclis and co will be back in a month anyways.
The part that hurts the most about this is that 24 hours before being nuked, i was quite happily stealing away at alexa, in wonderment that i wasn't getting fines. I honestly thought that i had found a way to steal from alexa without getting caught. And i had! What i thought i had found though, was that if i was never seen by anyone in alexa or nearby, and i made the steal, that my maxxed out stealth was good enough to stop rangers from getting my name, and my disguise as a warrior was enough to save me when looking down the 'who thief' list. Hopelessly optimistic, perhaps a bit silly, but true none-the-less. I wouldn't have been shocked if i had been reported for stealing some of the items, in fact i would have pleaded guilty in some cases if i had been reported, but i was never reported. Glaurung asked me about my stealing habits, and i explained, he then told me that nothing was wrong, the 'problem' had been sorted, and i could continue doing whatever it was i was doing, so i did. Same happened again 12 hours later, with Teak....he tells me ok to carry on. Then without warning i get nuked by Draugluin after he has asked me for the names of all my alts, and asked about the names of some of my friends chars as well. We were unaware that we were violating the code of the game, so how does that make us low down claimsnatchers?
Yeah I totally think anyone who is in the top 30 thieves of all time would realize, that after so many thefts without ever being reported or found guilty, that something was wrong. The big lesson here is that you had Ainur telling you something was wrong, but you continued to do it anyway. If you didn't know what was happening, you are an idiot, so either way this nuke was well deserved.
if you guys think you are the best thieves ever you need to make some friends cause you dont know some of the greatest people in arda...
Yeah, but they are making it obvious they were abusing, knowing that they were doing it, a bug that made their crimes uninvestigatable and unreportable. I suppose that's why they're 'The two greatest thieves Arda has ever seen', being clever enough to find a bug and exploit it as much as possible, and most likely having quite a bit of time pass before getting caught.
And Ehtyar, I at least never plead guilty, why should I care about an extra 300-1000 gold when the chance is there that I'll be saving 10k? Sometimes I even get off!
I think Ainur shouldn't nuke players of such crime unless there is real sound evidence that the bug is deliberately abused. Maybe a better punishment, in case there isn't enough evidence, would be imprisoning the characters of the typist, for, say, one real life month or more, depending on the seriousity of the consequences of their act.
Best thieves in Arda my ass. Since everyone else pointed it out, I won't bother commenting on the cover shit, but when Fearon gets reported, pleads not guilty, and obviously gets 'You are indeed innocent. All charges are dropped.' instead of 'The judge believes you, you get off.' Or whatever... heh... Makes it obvious to me at least that Fearon is indeed a looting, claimjumping bug abuser.
I was more interested in making sure that i stole the ice staff back off alexa to care about you stealing that asb, (which was stolen from alexa earlier multiple times anyway) That there ice staff, anybody notice that go missing?
you gone .. how sad..
I enjoyed nicking Your asb last night
--
Teclis says in Westron: i just lost an asb, so please keep bidding to
make me fel better
--
anyhow .. see you on the rebound
I realise that, and I also realise most people have better sense than to risk higher fines for a slim chance at being let off.
you get a 5% chance of being found not guilty anyway! you go read the fucking help files before commenting. No we didn't realise we weren't getting reported because were bloody good thieves who make it our job not to get caught. reports and fines have been paid like i said but i don't expect to get caught on most my steals. no offence but if your gonna chat shit about sommit you know nothing about just shut up and stop making dumb ass comments.
Like hell you didn't know you were cheating; you stole something and then pleaded not guilty for it? If you really are as clueless as all your claims suggest, well, it's your own damn fault you got nuked - read some helpfiles next time. If you aren't, it's even more your fault you got nuked.
Giving people the benefit of the doubt can hurt as much as it heals. It would be nice if we had perfect and all-seeing admins, but we don't.
cover stealing is irrelevent.
we did the steals which we got nuked for solo...
we've both paid fines before and been caught
we got nuked because we were using a capital letters in the names we were stealing off.
i.e steal sword from Player
instead of steal sword from player
something which we had no clue was messing up the lawsys
it's not been the case that we have always gotten away with reports we just made it very hard for people to find out it was us. there's no theft that's unreportable. what got us nuked was something we had no influence over because we did not know it was there
OK, you can be reported, but no ranger will find you on an investigate, and no judge will find you guilty. Yes the judge will find you guilty. And this make you guys just look stupid and ignorant. Because i mean you should really suspect something after a while.
You guys have been playing for 'years' yet Fearon thought that if you get a thief to steal after you you're not guilty? :P
Buggar, *waves
erm i mean you can still be found guilty.
I'm pretty sure you can still be reported for the crime as well.
OK, you can be reported, but no ranger will find you on an investigate, and no judge will find you guilty. Also, i would like you to understand that the nature of this bug was in using a capital letter for someones name!! I've used the same alias' and triggers since i began. and surprise surprise i've had alot of fines. If i get reported after making a steal at an auction, and i am unaware of any cover, then i plead guilty anyway, so the idea that i have only ever pleaded not guilty and always got away with it is ridiculous.
Um.. yes you can still be reported. even if 10 thiefs steal after you
The only reason i pleaded not guilty was because i guessed on a unique of that calibre one of the other thieves would cover.. there were a few hid in there. if you get another thief to steal after you, you can't get reported.
I'd also like to point out that I told Fearon something like 'I _know_ it was you,' and he was extremely curious to find out how I knew. It seemed harmless at the time. :P
Hahahahaha. Like hell they didn't know. Fearon stole the shadow sword from me at Alexa a week or two ago. Nobody was able to investigate it, but all signs pointed to him (he was hidden, ran away and kept moving so I couldn't look at him, and then gave it to some guild, and they told me that he gave it to them). I reported him for it, and he denied, denied, denied...and he pled not guilty, and of course got off with it. When you always plead innocent and the judge always says you really are...it doesn't matter whether you know there's some capital letter issue or not. There's clearly a bug. *shrug*
definately a 6 as the 2 greatest thieves arda has ever seen are in it!
grimscar fuck off you tit.
cyas all.. well at least i won't get blagged for gold every 5 mins now :)
Grimscar, you always have been a piece of shit haven't you. take you lame as comments somewhere else you fuckwit. you ain't wanted here
And one ainur telling you something is ok, and then another ainur telling you it isn't and punishing you just isn't right. Its happened to me twice, but what can you do.
Yeah, my brother got a character nuked for a bug he didn't know about. You think that they would have some kind of respect for and a little consideration for the time that mortals spend. But no, they will nuke you for doing something stupid or by accident, everyone makes mistakes. But imho, few stupid mistakes are worth deleting days, or months of a person's life and work. I don't see how they cant compromise with different punishments instead of nuke nuke nuke all the time with the little red button that they seem to love to punch. Not everyone knows about balance, and things of that sort, and not everyone is a lying cheater.
I'm glad you're gone.
Bug abusing pieces of crap.
I don't care if someone abuses a bug to make unlimited gold, but when you fuck over other players with it, that's when your whole cadre of character should be gone.
And bullshit you didn't know.
by the way were slighly pissed off about it.
*coughs* I'd comment...but i'd prolly get nuked for it :P
So to :
Etrius, Iazrul, Zicex, Viktor, Larion, Aduial, Lionxv, Boffo, Tindra, Bagon, and everyone else who made it great
INNA BIT MI G FUNK NIGGAS!