SoU
sorry, he always seems to be alive when i go in their (he likes me, always giving me spare cash when i need it for healing)
Bitch please, don't make me start picking those levels off you again :p
And....PK tips?
Its common sense love...stop whining, get one of those funky ol' adrenalin rushes and spill some blood.
I'm right though Gothwin...whether this be the place to comment or not.
Gondor's Vengeance have certainly shaken things up a bit, and made life a little more bearable for us Moral Gondorians.
And...i am not a Knight of Dol Amroth.
*legends himself just to double check*
When you hear a KoDA talk about 'owning' and giving you pk tips, is when you know this ain't the right place to discuss these things.
It seems to me like everyone is upset(evils anyway), because there is a new gang in town...and they are fucking owning the lot of ya!
Don't get upset, and whine about it...get angry and strike back at them.
Times like this make me glad that KoDA dont deliberately set out to PK. :P
Likewise, I use sturdy a lot. And if you see me on and active I've probably killed tenzek twice already.
I don`t know what you are talking about Trap, but Tenzek is dead all the time and I use sturdies all the time so what is your point? :P
heh, trap, tenzek is, like, dead all the time, cause that tiny camp is impossible to effectively protect against a party of 2 who know at least a little about the game.
sorry trempk, i ment tenziks, not their GH, but still, alot of people used to use sturdy armour even though it sucked, and now you hardly ever see it, but people will risk going after a LHP any time of the week because KoDA dosnt instill the same idea to people, DH does a damn good job of making sure people know where they stand, and i dont think its bad RP for them to be that way.
And no, i dont hate you Grimscar :P i hate morals, few do i have any respect for. Untill i grew extremly sick and tired of moral players in general i had made it 16 levels and 10 days without ever once killing anything moral, and i havent killed animals since like lvl 4 or 5. I even whent for a while not stealing from morals, or returning the things once i had a chance to align them, or pay them back even for my thefts i made as a young theif. But now i have become extremely disconted with the quiet higher avg of morals whining than evils. And morals have treated me worse for things i never even did than evil people ever have. The evil people that dont like me do so for a reason i have given them, but i cant count the times moral people have treated me bad and unfairly because i was a thief, even if i was angelic. So now, i might not be guilded, yet, but i find it hard to sit by and see such slanderous things being said by people who have many, many faults of their own. You grimscar are the most out spoken of late, and so at this time it is to you i direct my thoughts, not because i hate just you, but the whole lot of you. I dont care if you send your whole guild and all your allies to kill me for stealing a phial so you can be killed easier, or any item that may affect the balance of the war. If i seen Aiglos for sale at alexa's i'd steal it and make sure it spent the whole uptime in DH or SoU's armoury and eat the fines, and the attacks, just to see things go bad for you :P
Trap
Beaten, Abused, and no longer able to sit by and watch...
3 tough NPCs to get to what? A shop? a GM room, some other crap that you can find in any other town without having to kill 3 tough guards, plus have to deal with hunting players and possibly a bang party. I'll take slaughtering tenzek's camp or the camp east of isengard over that any day.
I don't think people fear attacking they're camp. Its just that its not worth the effort.
Grimscar: As soon as you stop acting like a bunch of thugs, I'll stop treating you like one. <- In regards to DH
Um, arent they renegade dunlendings? arent thugs kindof like renegades?
Just because another player/guilds style isnt what you would like it to be means they arent RP'ing, i happen to think the fear they inflict into a persons mind when that person thinks of raiding the camp is pretty thematic, and we've seen logs of one or two of them comming out to take on parties of attackers all in the name of defending their camp, so you cant say they hide in their GH and let people slay their NPC's.
After that last comment, Grimscar and I got into a decent debate on the comm, where he claims that his roleplay is pkilling Gondor's enemies, which made me ask why, in his post here, he said that we DON'T roleplay, since we pkill our thematic enemies in the same way that he pkills his.
'^ Grimscar: Why, Caber? Because your guild is scum, that's why.'
I'm sorry, but when you base your roleplay on pkilling people (the only other thing I've seen him do was defend the MT merchant from me; one of those times, he left and let someone else kill it as soon as I ran away), telling another guild that they don't roleplay when they do the same thing is pretty silly. I just don't get it. Pkilling is roleplay for Grimscar, but it's not for us. I guess some people are just special.
I'm sorry, Hans, did you not report someone? I know you reported at least one person. *shrug*
And Grimscar...hahaha. I knew you'd have an excuse. When you can truly be the roleplayer you claim to be, then you can teach everyone The Way. In the meantime, stop pointing at everyone else and start looking at yourself.
I don't have a problem with you or any other RoI or GV or a moral for that matter trying to kill me in an established area that clearly states 'you step over this (in)visible boundary, consider yourself fresh meat', but I have a problem with you or anybody else hunting me outside of that area and potentially abusing it to pk me or anybody else that happens to be passing by on their way to their guild. You call it cowardly and inconsistant, I call it premature and underdeveloped, though I think the intend is interesting.
And yes, it took years to establish it and develop what we do in Mordor. In the beginning when Garic was GM and loosely announced we'd defend Mordor, we faced a lot of resistance, most particularely from Rims as you are aware of, as well as others. It took years of playing back and forth, re-examining who we'd defend against and who not, considering the implications of our actions and the effects it would have on the community at large, and ourselves. It was a delicate and long process, with one major turning point being the introduction of communities and CU (I think), that eventually allowed us to be more uniform and consistant in the way we treat 'everybody' in Mordor. It hasn't stopped developing and will continue to do so...and I welcome any criticism on it.
Now on the other hand, it's like I am getting punched in the face with a spiked glove, because you're attempting to create an equal environment for morals with loosely defined theme boundaries and absolutely no development or detailed 'substance', and I am not jumping at it for joy as a RP'er. Rome wasn't build in one day, Otoron, nor did it spill out to emcompass half of the Empire.
You can be pissed all you want. Until you stop trying to bully us into accepting your 'underdeveloped' terms and put your aggressions on a leash, we'll continue to be working against each other without a solution both sides can live with.
There's a big difference there, Caber, and I'll tell you what it is.
Daen Hecil doesn't RP. SoU at least tries.
Daen Hecil has been attempting me with one mans, two mans, three mans, and gangbangs on me since I was level 12. Constantly. I was attacked at least 30 or 40 times by Duncan, Ruiniel, and the rest of your guild, including Mahamodie, Iago, Yffern, yourself, and more.
Sure, sometimes you showed a little spirit of RP, at Tenzek's camp, attacking, and then hunting off as i left. Never once did I report at those times. But Daen Hecil has shown themselves to me as not wanting to do anything but bully people. Until I started killing Duncan for attempting me, I was getting attacked two to five times a day by Daen Hecil and its 'friends', all over Arda. You yourself would constantly seek me out all over Arda just to kill my charmed animals.
So don't suddenly throw the 'We RP too blanket of wool' over everyone's eyes, Caber.
As soon as you stop acting like a bunch of thugs, I'll stop treating you like one.
Er, Grimscar, practice what you preach. Grimscar reported everyone involved in killing him when he tried to arrest Duncan at Daen Hecil's guildhall. As did Hans and Gawen, his two guildmates who also died.
Get the facts straight before writing lies.
What do Michael Jackson and a Big Mac have in common?
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They both have a 30 year old piece of meat stuck between two 9 year old buns!
Trap, Otoron, Gothwin your comments are too long for me to read right now but even though this has been and is said alot. Mordor is lawless, any moral entering or even evil who is suspected of killing there knows the risks of going in, you KNOW the RISKS, so quit bitching about it, gee.
Grimscar wrote: 'I defend Gondor, that is my RP, when I am in the area. Any Son of Ulfang entering, IF THEY ARE RPING, should consider Gondor, and especially Minas Tirith, Dol Amroth, and Linhir, JUST as lawless for them, as Mordor would be for me, and NOT run off to a courthouse to report for the SAME THING YOU JUST DID TO ME IN MORDOR!
You don't have to wait for Valinor to code you forced RP to start acting like you should. So, I will kill SoU anywhere, until they come to the negotiating table and finally decide whether they want to RP, or not RP. '
Er, Grimscar, practice what you preach. Grimscar reported everyone involved in killing him when he tried to arrest Duncan at Daen Hecil's guildhall. As did Hans and Gawen, his two guildmates who also died. It's really funny to see you on here spewing stuff about how everyone should be roleplaying without needing the lawsys. And I know you're just going to bounce back with something like 'Raaar, but your people have reported me before!' Hey, maybe they have. So what? If that's your excuse for straying from the wonderful code of RP that you're setting forth here, then maybe you don't believe in it as steadfastly as you claim.
Trap, I have no idea what alternate mud you're playing... But it sounds pretty good.
Funny Gothwin. Your killing people in Mordor is forcing others to conform to your RP (which is new, I recall YEARS when the Sons wouldn't dare -touch- FRA or Rims in Mordor for fear of having their asses handed to them on a platter- good RP there guys), yet you don't mind? Why, because you can't be reported. It's chickenshit hiding behind the lawsys where it applies, but not where it doesn't, and calling it RP. I'm FINE with what you do in Mordor. I get PISSED when I kill one of you in Gondor and you run to the Edoras or MT courthouse and report me. I feel it's chickenshit. You call playability as your excuse for not defending Loth War Camp and evil camps in Mirkwood? Lot smaller area than Mordor... yet.... oh. Wait. You're too afraid to be backhunted away from your well-break, and you don't WANT to roleplay, you want to get free 5 man gangbangs.
Come out and say you'll kill in Mordor because you're badasses, and don't give a shit what people want, and I'll respect it. Until you stop hiding behind the lawsys and 'RP', however, I won't.
-otoron, confused why killing big bad evils outside of Arda means less to the Sons than an orc guard inside
If they only hunt and kill inside mordor, then what are they doing when i see them chasing people around outside of mordor? Just annoying them? Following them like damien? Oh, i know, maybe they are following them aruond waiting for them to enter mordor? Everyone says its ok for DH to hunt within there lands, same with VC, Galadhrim, VC, RoI, etc.... If SoU was to hunt at balforth, they'd be typeing in hunt off as soon as the target moved what, 3 rooms? Otherwise everyone would be bitching about them hunting in RP outside their own territory... I just dont see where everyone gets off bitching at them. Way back when they became a guild as Saurons personal strike force and defenders of Mordor, and now everyone wants to complain for them killing inside mordor? So its ok for the random person inside mordor to hunt and kill, but not the people sworn to protect it because what? i dont follow... All i know is everyone keeps complaining about everyone elses RP, when i dont see anyone hardly at all really truly RP'ing. RP is Role Playing, playing the role of another person in that persons times and surroundings, Would one of the ring wraiths have said oh, this is the shire, i could sniff out them little bastards, but then aragorns going to complain at me for making snacks out of his little friends inside his terretory. Would suaron have told his servants if you find anyone inside mordor attack them, but if they say oh, we'll leave now just let em go, we dont want to hurt anyone, they might whine about it. I quit being moral because all i see is moral people whining when an evil assassin fades, or hunts, or backstabs, they complain that its not RPing to do those things. I quit being moral because i see alot of 'moral' people doing things that are just as lowdown and evil as anything a servant of sauron could think of doing. Sure its just a game, but damn i hate listening to people complain about everyone else all the time, its a damn war, win it, at all costs, using every god given skill you've got available, kill em every chance you get, any way you can, untill the other side gives, its the way it was in the books, no holds barred, a battle for the face of Middle Earth, with no thought about hurting the other sides feelings, and no complaining about the other sides tactics.
I was too tired to respond to this earlier, and am not even sure if this is the right place to do so, but here we go...
First things first. If I were to apply your logic as you are, Grimscar, the Sons would have to use hunt to protect Dol Guldur, the Orc Camp in Lothlorien, perhaps all of Mirkwood and any Orc Camp in and near it to drive people out of the area. We don't...why? It's called PLAYABILITY and would quickly deteriorate into a large scale war that would leave both sides crippled to the point of nobody wanting to continue on.
To get the facts straight, I never disagreed for morals not to have an area they can fiercely protect as we do Mordor without the use of the law, quite the contrary, I even encouraged it (don't remember who I talked to about this, since there were many), such as BkD used to do in Erebor, because (and this is my own opinion) it would enhance Arda and push it into a new era of 'realistic' RP, the way you and I want it to be.
The problem is that Arda, as it is now, cannot sustain it aside from a few RESTRICTED areas, areas that are heavily controlled, by theme and code, to prevent what I have been trying to avoid all along, that is ABUSE. Even Daen Hecil or BkD I am sure were/are aware of the problems of hunting within their own RP areas and the difficulties associated with controlling it to prevent it from spilling into all of Arda. Apply it all of Gondor, and it is only a matter of time before it escalates and we end up back at square 1, which we are in right now, a fist fight.
My arguement has been, since day one, to allow for morals to have one area (ONE! not 935725) they can apply the same terms of Mordor on, an area with CLEAR boundaries, where everything goes and people can duke it out if they want to. Yes, compromise for the sake of playability, because what we both want is WAY AHEAD of its time, and I do not believe Arda or the majority of players are ready for it yet.
With that being said, I report you and others, and am going to continue to use any means appropriate (including in this case an OOC tool) to discourage you from using force to make us submit to your (OOC) demands, until you back off, and we have room to come to an agreement that is acceptable for both sides and won't blow up in our faces a week later. You are waging a war in the name of RP without even having established it yet, which took us YEARS to do!
And lastly: 'Sons reporting people to a 'law system' for being attacked or pkilled in Gondor is about as funny as them killing all the bad guys they do' - wow, Otoron, I am impressed by your limited understanding of our guilds theme. Perhaps we should really get to writing up that helpfile to help people like you. Refere to the last paragraph if you are unclear as to why the lawsystem is involved in this 'conflict'.
Better than a Mordor lawsys would be a bounty that scales with the total number of Mordor NPCs a character has killed. So not only would Mordor be lawless, it would be a good place to make gold pk'ing.
Right Iago, it's hunt and kill because they can't get fines out of it... If mordor was made with a lawsys again (to my understanding?), the hunt-killing would stop..... It wouldn't be rp anymore.
I think you misunderstood. what i meant was, was that they hunt and kill because its lawless and don't say we hunt and kill because its rp. a reason i think that is because i don't see them hunt and kill people at balforth :p
My god, Iago that was the most redundant comment Ive ever heard.
Dearest beloved powers of the game, those who spend limitless amounts of time to make this game for us.... PLLLLLEASEEE CODEE MINAS MORGUL !!! Please please please
I thought they didn't get reported when they do it in mordor because mordor is a lawless land, nothing more than that.
Dear Trap
Grimscar states that if SoU can hunt in rp and not be reported by it because of thematic stuff, then any moral shouldn't be either. One dosen't need to be too bright to realize that.
Rhoads
Um scatha, first comment on the thread, grimscar stating SoU hunt in rp, but then he goes on to say he will defend gondor at any price, AKA hunting down and killing enemies. He then also says as soon as he logs on he is RP'ing, so he hunts in RP... He also states that evils should be immune from protection of the law in gondor... But this is something entirely different. Being able to immidialty tell ones alignment, disguised or otherwise is unthematic in itself, so i guess i'm whining now at inconsistancies, so i'll stfu :P
wow. long.
Ok... imagine MT coded lawless and limited access to evils and mass murderers now. Then all of that immense area with its hundreds of npcs would just sit there serving no purpose. I mean i understand morals risking their asses for fangs or ice staffs or bd/cu eq... but can you imagine an evil risking being banged by any arda's party of morals for a ... towers guard helmet?... a pernicious sword?... well crimson longbow is really the only really worthwhile item that comes to mind... This is the same with a lot of areas, them just sitting there and pretty much wasting away(dh village, erebor,bd) which is really a shame, considering it took someone a great deal of time to code it. I think that can be changed. Make all these areas along with linhir and caras lawless for the enemy(whatever in each case) and heavily guarded against any intrusion, but also make the reward (gold or items) worthwhile. Throw in a unique or some powerful armour into dh village. Triple the amount of gold on linhir guards and make them unrobable. give the lady in edoras some opals or something of the sort. Add more infrastructure in mordor for true evils ( like place a couple of ghs and evil quests there) so that its not the only point to go there to check fang. This would greatly increase the amount of Pvp combat.
but then again, assassinations on one of the opposing side would be near impossible as the victim can just hide in his area... and it would be hard for not very experienced players or players not belonging to any groups to make cash(maybe make some areas impartial)... bleh this needs more thinking. but maybe thats what the ers are all about... i hate exams.
Personally, I dont think, as a Son of Ulfang, I would be able to walk into a courthouse and report crimes against me. In fact, I would think that there would be a bounty on my head at all times.
However, it depends on your view of the lawsys. Some people would argue that the lawsys is an OOC game mechanism in place to keep this from becoming a pkill mud. Also, if a moral ventured into mordor, and servants of Sauron discovered Them, it would be highly unlikely that they would cut off the attack on the moral(s) simply because they ran away. If you go into mordor, be prepared, its a dangerous place.
Trap, I don't see any whining here. I see valid thought-out points being raised that make you stop and think, and I agree with most of the points being brought up.
People touch a nerve, and others call them whiners. For the first time for a LONG time, I can say that the moral guilds are streets ahead of the evil guilds in terms of their in-character acting.
Powers
Oh, yeah, right, the log. Let's see, I don't give a crap about it.
I don't think you can compare a RL murderer to a devoted servant of Sauron.
Good points, Grimscar and Jasumin. Back on topic... I see no reason why a log like this shouldn't be posted. If this log being posted upsets you, perhaps you're a bit too elitist. Maybe a bit narcistic too.
Oh, and about evils using law sys, i kindo see the point about SoM's not being able to, but even then, ever hear one of those RL stories about some honest everyday citizen killing an evil person for something that person did against him or his family? It happens, but more than half the time he/she still has to face punishment. The law dont look at what the victom was like first, then take into consideration what the purpetrature was like, the look at THE CRIME! What crime was commited, not who was the victem, and did they have it comming...
Trap, I think Grimscar and I were pointing out the irony of them reporting to the lawsys when they are killed in Gondor or Rohan or Caras. Not the hunting-in-combat thing.
Jasumin: get rid of Alexa. Stupid unthematic thing anyway. Let people use the comm, etc. More and more evil camps have tents. Al? Something similar in Dol Guldur (actually have it in existence as a nice big place as it should be!) or Osgiliath or Mordor. Have Ulkhalad be making a side-profit. There are a million ways to fix the few things that really need balancing. And I wasn't saying implement changes without addressing them, of course.
-otoron
Man, what a bunch of whiners, all anyone ever does is bitch and moan. Since when is it Un thematical and non-RP to USE YOUR PROFFESIONS SKILLS? When are you all going to relise that EVERYONE that has an assassin in their guild has hunted in rp? When warriors can turn off thier maxed blocking then i wont mind hearing people bitching about assassins fading, ever think they like the added dodge bonus? Other than the backstab they are the same exact fighter a thief, ranger, or even civilian is, so why not use thier one defensive bonus to their advantage? From a totally IC way of thinking, who in their right mind would say oh, a sworn enemy, i got the skills to track this punk down, but then he might whine or say its unfair, so i'll let him escape to come back with 5 friends and kill me? Soon with new rangers everyone but us dastardly thiefs and plain civilians will have combat skills that are of use, but it dont matter, everyones still going to complain about assassins using their skills at all, its just human nature, everyone fears that which they cannot see :P
burp
Actually, Otoron, I don't fully agree.
I do believe that thematically SoU and evils should be kept out of Minas Tirith, and denied entry to Linhir (rather they should have to sneak into Linhir or something...), but from a playability stand-point, Arda has been coded so that most of the features of the game are in towns, stuff like Alexa, and Al, to name a few, all the inns etc.
Until evils have similar things in their evil camps (Maybe not necessarily all the same things, but an equality of sorts), barring them from all towns on the MUD would have a negative effect on the balance.
That's my 2 cents.
Jas
I want to dream too.
One day, I will be a big strong warrior
One day, I will be cooler then a Powers
One day, You all will stop whining
One day, I will die and not have to put up with you whiners anymore
One day...
Whee, almost makes me want to play
-mikula
*dreams a bit*
One day, in the future, mass-murders of Linhir will not be given permits by the people whose job it is to keep them out.
One day, in the future, Demonic mass-murderers of Gondorians will not be able to stroll into Minas Tirith like it were some hick-town just because they can.
One day, in the future, Minas Tirith, a town mobilized for war, will have a lot of guards who auto-attack evils that do make it into the Tower of Guard.
One day, in the future, the lawsys will not apply to Shadowspawns of Mordor who serve the Enemy.
One day, in the future... yeah. It will be really thematic, and a lot of fun. Roleplayers will get their rocks off, and playerkillers will get their rocks off by doing what they should be doing- taking a side in the War that is raging across Arda and killing the servants of the opposite side. And people who want peace can wander around Bree and the Shire, and smoke pipes and drink at the Ranhoth brewery.
Whee. It almost makes me want to immort.
-otoron
Another anecdote and Son-bashing.
Eorling mage is attempted by three Sons inside of the castle of Dol Amroth, a well protected fortress of good. Why? Well, RP of course! They saw her in Mordor a month before!
Hehe. That was a couple days ago. I just love the 'RP evil servants of Sauron who kill lots of bad guys and use the law system of free race towns to protect themselves when the tables turn'.
-otoron
Well, as loathe as I am to publicly commit myself to agreeing with Grimscar, he's kind of dead on. Sons reporting people to a 'law system' for being attacked or pkilled in Gondor is about as funny as them killing all the bad guys they do.
I wish the old Sons were around, who 1) knew how to RP, and 2) were cool. Anyone else recall when the Sons enforced their own RP and were one of the strictest guilds in the game on it? Before they started killing every evil NPC in the game who has a decent wep or armour and isn't on their kill restrictions? It's really time for guild review to be back in place, and cull the herd some more.
-otoron
Yeah, go fimbu! *smirk* do you guys get off arguing with each other or something?
You are an immoral person IRL if you don't RP
Code shouldn't be needed to enforce RP really, should be something natural.
Hi Drego!
powers r teh roxxor aldarin r teh roxxor we r teh roxxor
winnetou r wannabe powers
Grimscar, we all play by the rules of the game, don't hate the player, hate the game.
Contracts and laws are also just text
Text text text nothing but text
You are the one who knows nothing of RP, Gothwin. When you log in to the Two Towers, you are now roleplaying. (RP). Your character is an evil bitch. Mine, is a soldier of gondor who will stalk his enemies and not let them escape.
You say that you defend Mordor, that it is your Rp to do so. You also hunt in Mordor, declaring it a lawless area.
I defend Gondor, that is my RP, when I am in the area. Any Son of Ulfang entering, IF THEY ARE RPING, should consider Gondor, and especially Minas Tirith, Dol Amroth, and Linhir, JUST as lawless for them, as Mordor would be for me, and NOT run off to a courthouse to report for the SAME THING YOU JUST DID TO ME IN MORDOR!
You don't have to wait for Valinor to code you forced RP to start acting like you should. So, I will kill SoU anywhere, until they come to the negotiating table and finally decide whether they want to RP, or not RP.
Eventually there will be one set of rules, though, and none of this 'well its mordor, you can attack us there if you want' crap, because obviously you're not killing stuff in Mordor, so its pretty freaking pointless to attack you, and its not like you'd ever hunt me unfaded by yourself, because you're way too cowardly.
I just wanted to show everyone what SoU's style is.
Erm, just what are you trying to accomplish by posting a crappy log of an attempt in Mordor? What makes your log so special that it's different from any of the other logs that were posted of me attempting people in Mordor, other then having a crappy format?
And having you talk about RP, of all people Grimscar, is laughable, and doesn't deserve even a response...
lame
hahahha
SoU hunt in RP!