Colorized info-session help file. A little easier to read.
Alright, first, Meglivornth was not disbanded, We're happily starting up our old guild again. It was disbanded for about 1 hour during a period during which I was changing the theme statement. Castamir must have had extremely bad timing on that one.
Second, This change is a good thing because it takes the Admin out of the control of player organizations. Dont you see that? If you are complaining about the changes the ainur force on you, then this is a great change for you. They wont make any more changes to guilds after this! You get what you sign up for.
No more changing the rules in the middle of the game from Valinor. The changes to guilds are just code based changes. If you're worried about losing members because your code is going to change, you've got problems with your guild. People should want to join the guild because of its theme, social environment, and reputation. If they dont want to join your guild? Looks like you're going to be disbanded, but who says thats a bad thing? The players decide which guilds are successful and which are not.
This is the equivalent of a free market economy in the guild system.
No more heavy handed centralized administration.
asdqweqweqwe looooooooong comments
Finaly! Draugluin admits that the administration are not human!
nuff said.
Nogothrim, though he seems to try and offend as many people as possible at once, has a good point:
This change is very much about empowering the playerbase, but, unlike what Deboraha would have you believe, it adds MORE of a human element. Instead of there being one person with real and complete control over how your guildhall looks (once), there is fluid and constant control - without involving Valinor. You don't have to ask me to code you a room that looks like a whatever. Your GM just does it. That's more customization, and more of a human element. Frankly, the logic that says GMs having complete control over their entire guild means things are less human is a bit silly.
A lot of you don't quite understand, or have bought into some of the rumor and scare tactics and hype. Understandable, it's not here yet! I created 'help dev22_faq' to combat a lot of this, and so far the feedback has been good - even from some GMs who didn't quite understand before. So, check that out.
Obviously this is a change not everyone is going to want to support, for a lot of reasons, many of which I touched on in 'help dev22_faq'. No problem with that. It would be nice, though, if you
disliked it for actual reasons, instead of rumors and in some cases complete lies :)
For instance!
Some people don't like it because it 'lowers the bar' and 'allows more guilds' -- these are both true statements, goals of the system, and if you don't like that fair enough.
It's when people try to convince you that those facts mean (all_these_other_untrue_things) that you have to be careful.
Check out 'help dev22_faq' and don't let the rhetoric get you down. This is a good change putting more control into the hands of the players, and freeing Valinor to code for a game, and not a person only 3% of you know, who may leave next week. The future of guilds!
D
If the views she just expressed make her a newbie, you should be able to clean up when you log on because I suspect there are dozens with a similar perspective, most of them being long-term gamers.
Cutter's Haven. Crikey. I'd totally forgotten about that.
Naith
PS: Lily for No. 1 Admin of All Time!
This is a change that is totally EMPOWERING THE PLAYERBASE. To say that, 'Because there will be a million guilds means guilds no longer have any meaning', is incorrect. The guilds that are run properly and have the best players will still rule the day. Nothing changes here. No one is taking away 'personal touch, supervision and care'. You are a newbie when it comes to game play and your views of the mud certainly reflect this.
The problem with mass production and automation is that quality and uniqueness go down. Just look at cars, for an obvious example. The more removed the human interaction with the development, construction and design of vehicles has become, the less appealing and special cars have become- unless you want to pay through the nose for it. In the end you have a K-car. Americans should remember those. For europeans, think Ford Sierra. Sure they function. You can get from point A to point B in reasonable comfort but there is no zip, no appeal and the majority of people will upgrade if they are given the chance. Sure you can jazz those cars up, but styling a Sierra is like putting makeup on a pig. It's still the same underneath.
When you take away the personal touch, supervision and care, things become just the same as anywhere. Naith is dead-on right. The game used to be better. All these little things done to make things 'more fair' or 'more automated' removed a lot of those little touches that
gave Towers its appeal.
If there is a problem getting manpower to code, the administration needs to look at itself and see why they cannot attract the adequate staffing and talent to keep a steady flow in Valinor. Often there are issues in management causing poor retention in a workplace- and don't kid yourselves that Valinor isn't a workplace. Even volunteer work is work.
There has been a steady decline in the quality of T2T for several years, starting with the removal of the main comm and the push into mud communities. That was one of so many half-planned plans that were acted on and eventually dumped. I don't think I have seen a fully developed project from Valinor that was well-implemented since the massive project for coding Minas Tirith. There was a great deal of planning, effort and cooperation there that flowed well. Sadly, that good example seems to have been forgotten.
Sure things were put off in the rest of the game and pet projects were delayed because of the work being done but (aside from Marsellus who wanted his Cutter's Haven :p) players didn't really complain because we understood that something big was coming and it would be a great improvement for everyone and the game administration treated the players with respect, giving out teasers and tantalizing us but never just dumping on the players and talking down to us.
Those days are long past, quite sadly. Even the last T2T Event felt like an afterthought. It happened because it was now a tradition but there wasn't too much special or new there. I was talking to a friend about it who has played about as long as I have and he agreed. It felt like Valinor just didn't really care this time.
The game used to be better. The administration used to be better and the playerbase was better- if not in gameplay, certainly in attitude. The admin can keep the attitude that the players have no choice but to accept the changes that are dumped on them or leave but more and more leave and what gets left are people who have given up caring about the game itself or people who never really gave a shit to begin with and are just here to use and abuse the game.
Games like T2T are *player* driven. The quality of the mud is dependent on the quality of the people it attracts and retains. Changes like this and the continued public contempt for the playerbase will cause a continued decline in the quality of T2T.
Gothwin's post really pisses me off. She says its not the code that matters then she says its the code that matters. I was around with clan SoU, i can say i was a ooc friend of fringers (university of washington football sucks all west coast does). They were newbie losers. They had a common goal they worked for it. They 'earned' a guild. Why be mad that new people can come here, bring thier friends, and work to create a guild. Its no different than newbie clan SoU did except they wont have to wait on whims of retarded ainur. Any mortal-available-system is better than the whims of whichever moronic ainur happens to be in charge. In this system your work cannot be destroyed by vindictive losers.
Its like you queers think you are losing something just because everybody else is gaining something. What the FUCK does your pride have to do with it? Cant other people be proud of something without getting the go-ahead from the stupid ass ainur who happens to be in charge of guilds?
it's a game... nothing more than a fun past time, the social structure doesn't matter, infact nothing about it really matters. it isn't massively important so why do people whine about it? you get given something you choose to do and make the best of it, if you decide it isn't worth it anymore you leave. some people invest way to much time into it and to be fair i actually feel sorry for them. i personally use it to practice my java coding as my client's a good format to script on in my opinion. If the ainur do something to mess it up and everyone leaves then they'll move onto something else and hopefully never make the same mistake again.
as for the log page, yes it's fun to read but why ever get worked up about it? if you invest alot of time into your character and it gets screwed over view it as a lesson and never let it happen again. The worlds a big wonderfull place that noone will ever fully understand but don't waste your life infront of a computer screen, we've all got a common interest and we use this as a place to share that. Forget all the hostility and be happy that your not the only one who thinks along the same lines as you do, everyone who reads this has something in common, maybe not alot but can't we all just have fun? ffs isn't that the point of all this!? someone coded the damn thing so people could explore and enjoy a world that lived in thier imagination and they asked for nothing in return. maybe they saw it as a challenge but they definately put a lot of effort into it. This is their world, they created it and they get to do what they like with it, to everyone else it's just another thing they've messed about with.. so comon guys and girls chill out a bit and be happy you got to experience someone else's well thought out handy work.
As I am anti all IMM intervention and visibility in the mortal realm, I believe this is a fantastic idea. This is definitely a turn in the right direction. I applaud the ainur and wish them good luck.
^ Essex: Once your disasterous policy of removing Ainur from the Guilds Business is impleemnted, will this restriction be removed. Please comment.
Best part of this log.
I think this is all just a big study on socio-political interactions and someone is going to be awarded a PhD.
The Two Towers is a society, or..perhaps a representation of a society(since it is a lot less complex than a real one). Societies are maintained and enriched by the institutions they contain. In this game these institutions are the guilds.
What the administration are proposing will be a dramatic and sweeping change to the social structure of of this game. Whether or not in the long run it will be for the best only time will tell.
However those who love this game and by and large enjoy the time they spend here have a duty to question these changes and, should they come to the conclusion that they disagree with the direction the game is taking, voice their concerns as loudly and as often as they are able.
Progess unabated and unchecked is never a good thing as we can all plainly see when we look at the various societies we live in and connect to The Two Towers from.
The administrations attitude towards and apparent contempt for the objections of estabished and 'respected' players is not a healthy or constructive way for the government of a society to treat it's influential and 'powerful' citizens.
Perhaps a more constructive dialogue with the players would be of benefit? Something that won't ruffle as many feathers as 'We have decided for you, so shall it be.'
I am happy to report that I have just attached a rear view mirror to my monitor at work. This allows me the full view of the corridor behind my cubicle, and thus i know a which times I must start pretending to work. This brilliant engineering solution will place me a step ahead of my competitors!
Ooh, ER's. Heck, i might just have to take one more ride on the good old t2t.
Quit pushing, just ride the MUDslide!
No, i was killing orcs w/ an alt and he came up to me and asked me if i knew how to get into erebor
Did he mean how do you get into erebor right after a boot? Cause i bet a lot of people don't know that :p cause what reason is there to be the first one into erebor right after a boot?
I stopped feeling attached to bkd the day an ELDER of bkd asked me how to get into Erebor though i'ld left it long before. People make the guild not the code itself. No one wants to live in your shittyass tower gothwin :) j/k
i'd agree with you but i just think they're trying to move up a scale.
the introduction of er's should unite all good races against all evil races (guessing that's the plan anyway) your sence of uniqueness and pride should come from fighting for your cause on a global scale instead of just a minor one. No more petty skirmishes over a stupid tree dwelling elves, were talking invasion time :)
which to me will make guilds have the same function as partying up does now. people to hunt with, coordinate equipment gathering and have a laugh with.
sure i'd love guilds to stay as they are but there's only so many ainur and their attention will be drawn to more important matters.
and if er's flop, fail and are generally crap then we'll just have to drag it back ;)
It's not about room descriptions, or number of rooms, or the size of the armoury, or even theme. It's about the individuality (the special code) that each guild has, and what every member prides itself on, that makes us different. It's providing a place that can grow, where people can grow with it, and leave behind a piece of themselves. Take away that pride and uniqueness, and you take away the very heart that makes the mud beat.
Razzor, once your friends are gone, what's going to be left to attract them? What's going to be left to keep them around? Your wonderful, even if often quirky charm? If it was just about friends, I'd have left the day Galaad and Garic suicided and not bothered to stick around. It's the place as much as the people that creates such a complex and damn realistic world we all like to lose ourselves in ever so often.
Let's not kid ourselves. Tinkering with guilds is like playing with fire, but by standardizing guilds half the mud is going to get burned, and I tell you here and now, a lot of people won't recover from it. That's one hell of a big risk to take in the name of 'improvement' if you ask me.
*pats gothwin on the head*
the players make the guild not the room descriptions or theme.
i'd have more fun with good mates in any city than i would with people i hated in the most beautiful place in the world.
sure you could boast about the later but where you gonna end up on a friday night ;)
I agree with GOthwin!
I can understand the need to automate the guild process in some way to lessen the burden it puts on the ainur by trying to keep up with the constant maintenance individual guilds require. We have seen this already happen in smaller instances, especially in recent years.
Trying to create an almost completely automated system though, where every guild is standardized into its own box, I can tell you right now is going to be the deathblow to the muds socio-cultural makeup. In fact, you are going to create a _completely_ different mud with at least two big 'kaboom's along the way.
The ainur are trying to create a machine, which may be much more efficient and easier to maintain, but will not provide the appeal and spontaneous and organic growth which is necessary to sustain the current population, and we all know that guilds have a 'huge' impact on the muds social structure. It's like razing half of Rome or taking a bulldozer for a ride down the Ave. des Champs Elysees, and putting up modern housing blocks in place. Besides getting butchered for demolishing an important piece of history, nobody would want to move in and live in a box, even if that box has different colors and other little boxes that can be superglued to it.
I just don't see how this is suppose to improve the game.
I really like the set of poses that you added to your car. It's great to jump in the car and see <MOSHING> and <pooping> among others. It truly makes for a realistic and immersive driving experience.
Naith rules :P
I miss you Naith! *bearhug*
Hehe.
I used to go to car shows, but my Viper assassin V1 became so obsolete with all those new V2s and their expanded fuel flasks that it became impossible for me to outrace them alone so I parked my Viper assassin in the garage and started riding the RL bicycle occasionally ringing its memories bell and riding it to the car shows to see the new and improved cars with additions that stoped making sense a long time ago.
Naith's comment is a pure 6 :)
Good comment there, Naith.
<3 Naith
I did, and I enjoyed it!
Christ, Naith. I'm not reading that.
Weirdest thing is that most of the people at car shows actually support the changes made to Naith's Bentley. I don't like people who go to car shows at all now..
It started with the Mortal Council, the idea to implement countless whimsical unecessary additions to the game and lose site of important changes like ER's which have now been GONE for well over 4 years.
OVER 4 YEARS!! ok im feeling better :-P
<3
I bought a Bentley T2T last spring. A real headturner, it was. I used to take it to car shows, and soon enough, appreciative people would surround it and ooh and aah and touch it and feel it and get in and ask for a test drive. Everyone who went for a drive said they had a really good time.
It was perfect just as it was. So I fixed it up good. I took it down to my mate Dave, who put on some go faster stripes and a great hulking bodykit. Then he shut off the backseats so that only people of a moral disposition can go back there, and even if you disguise like a moral person you can't get back there. I just remembered that I left a lot of good stuff in the backseat that now I will be unable to get. Oh well.
Dave has had some work done on his car too. He has a Warrior pickup. I was round his place last week and saw he messed around with the circuitry of the Warrior's security system, so that if someone tries to break into the car, the alarm system (h.e.d.BUT II) shocks the invader. For some reason, this makes the pickup go busy for one round, instead of the guy who wanted to steal it. I haven't figured out why this is, but Dave says that this is normal.
I used to take my car out on vigilante trips, because I live in the EastEnd of London, which is where gangsters and unsavoury people live. I don't go on vigilante trips anymore because I used to be able to catch these unsavouries and run them over on my own, but now they have so much healing that I can only really make any impact at all if I gang up with all my mates and chase them down with parties of 4 or 5 cars just for one simple hit-and-run. People who get run over don't get so hurt by it anymore anyway. They used to end up in intensive care for a while, but now they just get a bit bruised and probably don't really mind about being run over at all. Unless we run them over a lot. There was even this one guy who said that he was glad he got run over, because the compensation payout he got was more than he lost by being run over in the first place.
So me and Dave have taken up drag racing instead. Dave took his Warrior drag racing yesterday, and raced it against a Ranger V2. I thought it would be an easy win, because someone told me the Ranger's driver had a condition where he kept fainting. Strangest thing: although the instruction manual said that the Warrior should be much more powerful than the Ranger, the Ranger beat Dave on a 1 on 1. Even Dave was confused by that one. He thought the Ranger might have had some overtuning.
Back at home, I did some work on the engine of the Bentley. Now when I take it out of the garage, it crashes or stalls sometimes 3 or 4 times before it even gets down to the end of the drive, and when I look in the boot after each crash, all the eq I worked so hard to put in there has gone. But then, at least, when I get it going, I can keep driving for up to 5 days, so it's not all bad. I have never had the need to drive for 5 days so far, but at least the option is there if I need it.
I still take it down to car shows, but now much less people gather around it. Sometimes they smirk and ask me why I felt the need to make all these changes to my Bentley, and I don't really know what to say to that.
Luckily Dave knows why, and says: 'Because I like my cars like I like my MUDs. If it's not broke, I love to fix it.'
Now Dave's working on a way to fit an unlimited number of groups of people in my car. I don't know how this is going to help my driving experience, but Dave says it will rock.
Castamir has the air of one who should log on to icq more often.
I would not go that far, Deboraha. The time for chastise the administration has not yet come, as we don't know the details _ourselves_.
For example, check out two of the concerns that have already been raised:
* guild location. Within the current state of the proposal, the most beneficial strategy is to put an elven guild in the middle of Mordor, a dwarven guild in Moria, or an evil one on the Golden Tree. But no, we're discussing this.
* theme screening. Note that, while this proposal reduces the theme requirements for clans to about 1% of the old tightness, things _did_ change. Note that the old version said 'everything that is not obscene', and the new one has 'everything that is not obscene, harassing or couldn't possibly exist in Middle-earth'. This is a huge difference, and it bodes poorly for such super-thematic entities as AotWU or GMotWU. In other words, having the bar lowered doesn't mean it has been completely taken away.
Last but not least, check out clan 237, 'Meglivornth'. It got denied!
wtf, he dident nuke anyone at the end?
I think they should let all of the old guilds that the admin forced out come back for free.
Bring back the Meglivornth, the Fellowship of the Rimbor-Anim, the Durmanhoth, the Rimsilval.
Plus, it would be nice to get an apology for screwing with them in the first place in a move that was so important that the admin changed their opinion 180 degrees in less time than it took to 're-theme' all of those guilds.
Okay, lets revive Durmanhoth?