So my character must be bugged such that when I post it gets erased a few minutes later. I put some thought into a gossip earlier today. Here it is.
The playability issue of Lothlorien relates directly to the playability issues of Mordor... although not in the way Vermond thinks.
It doesn't matter, not even a tiny bit, that Mordor has been opened to allow for Player/Player interaction... because ERs would rather conquer Lothlorien and get their free PKills there. As an FR, I'm not really all that interested in getting into Mordor, if it's not even safe for me to set foot in Loth... especially since Lothlorien is one of the three routes from West Arda to East Arda.
The key to the matter you are discussing is pretty simply and obvious. Mordor wasn't designed to be PATROLLED.
I recently had a car driving lesson. My foot was on the accelerator and the car was increasing its speed. What I did was try to steer the wheel as fast as possible in order to stay inside the road, instead of simply lowering the speed.
Valinor is steering on full speed. But the more crucial problem is that they do not realise they are driving on the pavement.
Most of them don't, that's why it causes lack of balance with superior eq, at quieter times of the day it is very easy to quest a lot of the eq in Mordor safely for hours.
Well, ERs don't kill in Mordor to get eq anyways, do they?
Oh, and to answer your smart ass question: People would still be able to use it, but the challenge and risks of getting it would be worth the outcome, and it would not be used excessively causing unbalance.
Mordor was visited quite often when gates were closed yet there were no patrols, yet it was still a worthy challenge with risks taken and prevented excessive use of superior EQ. Now all it does is to allow one side to quest the superior eq quickly before the other notices. Mordor was fun-inized, but there is actually more excessive eq questing going there than pking or fighting.
What's the point in having eq in Mordor if no-one was to use it?
True. Mordor is pretty much the equivalent of Minas Tirith rather than Lothlorien, which is much well guarded than it, even though it has much worse EQ. Mordor has better eq (as if FRs didn't have superior eq already), is currently safer than most of East Arda and easily accessible
You might as well compare Outpost to DA and whine about lack of packs. Would make as much sense.
Everything. You compared Lothlorien to DG, I compare Lothlorien to Mordor.
What exactly does Lothlorien being unbalanced have to do with the Mordor password?
I like how the people that whine about Lothlorien being unbalanced or unthematic have fun using a password to walk in Mordor.
WTF?
Lothlorien was 'already' too hard to keep out of Evil hands, even before they opened the new, improved Dol Gulder.
so I hear they also moved flask to edoras.. I wonder whether their next step won't be removing rhosgobel?
petition to strengthen lothlorien was denied :(
So... conclusions?
My doctors tell me that I need to stay on my medication if I want to prevent these episodes.
Bwahahaha.
Otoron is EVERYONE.
Including me, right now.
Valinor desperate? Er...No?
Pallasch, I can't keep the secret anymore! Winnetou is me! *takes off his mask*
I'm trying to figure out who keeps using Winnetou's name to comment with :P
Reopening Mordor is like trying to give a piece of a pie to a starving person. Two or three years ago, ainur would say 'Hell no' to the idea of reopening mordor. They would probably give hundreds of reasons, some of which, surely are Balance, Playability, Theme. This step is just another example of how desparate Valinor is. But Valinor needs to ALREADY grasp that more changes will simply make the situation stink worse. I don't know what the step should be, probably a little bit of research and debates with backed arguments where more than 1(D.) person decides what's gonna happen? I have no idea. None of my business anyway. As somebody stated: I should probably thank you for making it easier for me to quit.
Holocaust is in the air. Nice to hear that Mordor's been reopened though.
'Also, the ERs are not too tollerable to each other - they fight among themselves. (the first thing Frodo witnessed after Shelob\s lair were fighting orcs) Where are the ER vs ER logs then???'
Maybe there isn't much infighting because we were so vastly outnumbered by the free races? There have been cases of infighting, and threats often enough, but any infighting just puts us all back in the whole war. We needed more people at higher levels. I think this is a fairly reasonable explanation at why we don't slaughter eachother. Besides, I've noticed the ERs are actually nicer than the FRs.
I've seen more logs of moral FRs killing eachother. Why?
And it always seemed to me that the variags were darker skinned. The only point I'll bring up is they can't be white...they're in the sun constantly, are they not? At the least they'd have a tanner skin. Certainly not like the numenoreans.
Of course there were moral and immorals in the Shire. Sauron not knowing about the Shire doesn't change that. The rangers served to keep evil to the east, but Ferny escaped notice, and he's not far from the Shire. He wasn't alone either.
Actually, Variag is not a name Tolkien came up with. They really existed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangians
I think that, if anything, Middle-earth's Variags are best compared to steppe people (and probably *not* dark-skinned!).
The word Variag is in just two lines of LotR, and they just say they are from Khand. In the Unfinished Tales it mentions the that the 'peoples of Khand' fought and later allied with the Wainriders, and it can be inferred that Khand fielded a great host of cavalry, at least at that time. Neither work gives any physical or cultural information. But, given Khand's geographic location, it was perfectly reasonable for the ainur to extrapolate that they are darker skinned in a mideast kind of way. I'd always pictured them as such when I was pretty much the only guy playing one in the old system.
Everyone's knowledge of Tolkien, on some topic or at some point in time, is going to be poor at least ONCE -- he left so much unsaid, and none of us ARE him.
Besides, listing a few things that aren't perfectly thematic isn't an indication of a lack of knowledge, or a lack of commitment to Tolkien -- rather, I think, its an indication this is a GAME.
A game where you couldn't be in hobbiton if you were anything but impartial, or knew of Rivendell? Whats the point?
Sure, the Dike isn't something you can pull directly out of LOTR -- but its ours, its an institution. Ditto for shady elves in Lothlorien. I mean, come on, its a game right?
Sometimes, theme wins, sometimes not. Hell, the -game- could arguably have been better, certainly much easier to code and more thematic if we just told 'evil frs' (or elves, at least?) to screw off, and removed them and the possibility to be them...but we didn't. We came up with serve, a compromise, so that the game can be played and all our old and invested evil elves didn't get screwed.
Ps: Its not impossible for ERs to fight each other, its set up for the players to decide...maybe someday there will be lots of infighting, maybe some day not.
Duncan I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you on this thematic statement !
Although I'm rather shared concerning the new changes, I find some pretty bad and others interesting, and partly not for the same reasons pointed out here.
Firstly I do like the no fines system.
I've always 'fought' for it.
And I do not think that this lack of fines solely explains the increasing amount of pkills and/or bangs.
In fact, in my past incarnation, I was living according to a no fines agreement myself, and did not report any murder or attempt murder against me (which leaded to the logical and convenient consequence that I was not or barely reported in return). Although it was obviously fined-free to pkill me, I was no more attempt than anyone else living by the fines rules.
I won't deny that a fine system does possess a preventive issue against pkill, and may limit its expansion. HOWEVER the 'no fines' agent should NOT be considered as the only factor that leaded to this 'butchery'.
It rather is a combination of factors, in which the general behaviour and roleplay of ERs (including the taking of BPs) played a larger part.
In fact, we must all agree that ERs, in order to survive, had to combine their forces so they could counter-attack the massive mayhem caused firstly by FRs.
And we all see how this counterattack fairly exceeded the initial assault, due to a coordination probably never seen before.
Although this coordination is an exploit to be mentioned and probably sung in forecoming tales, it turns out to be boring and unthematic.
Boring, because massively overpowered, boring because necessarily implying huge parties, boring because providing a cloned roleplay amongst ERs, which leads to the unthematic part that Duncan explained perfectly and that I won't repeat.
I'm pretty sure that if there were no BPs and no patrols scouting, there would actually be less pkill. Why? Because the blood-lust would not have been motivated by any surviving urge or any 'group' behaviour.
And we all know the nefarious effects of the 'sheep effect', don't we?
Finally, akin to Castamir, I believe that a lot of people here are not socialisation fans or probably poor or awkward 'socializers'.
I mean, who would spend so many hours on a roleplay text based game anyway? Which is fine, imo, but which also leads to different kind of roleplay based on a rather lonesome attitude most of the time.
Although it obviously does not prevent social interactions, neither does it prevent the fun some people might see in huge parties at times.
At times only!
It's a fact, players firstly mud for themselves. However obvious it sounds, it's a primordial fact that should yet carefully be kept at the back of our coders' mind.
The problem with the recent changes is the fact they are(most likely incidentally and not purposely) inciting people to party, hence to socialize more, to coordinate more, to frustrate or smother their little own-worshipped ego to the benefit of the 'pack'.
Which is basically a social demeanor we generally have to bear while working in our modern and rather absurd lives.
Roleplay games are by essence commonly considered as an escape for this world and/our meaningless lives.
Why? Because like art, it is firstly an expression of our 'self' (through a personal and not too stereotyped roleplay) on/against/with yet primarily _above_ the others. This expression being mostly revealed by personal exploits, hero-ship, or any other gratification valued by the roleplayer as the notification of his own skills.
Needless to say that those accomplishments or abilities valued as such are probably as numerous as the number of typists playing.
Therefore, if those peculiar aspirations and fantasies begin to be disregarded to the benefit of a social higher need, like the survival of a typical group, it sadly revives a well-known frustration that most roleplayers are willing to get rid of.
Not that community feelings are not expressed by the players.
People also need to befriend and to gather around a common goal, motive or purpose. However, this goal should not overwhelmed or erased the individual aspirations of each of its members.
On the contrary, the members themselves do construct the features of their groups or communities.
Thus, if the guilds are probably too numerous and if some are the pale needless clones of others, the legions are typically not enough to provide a _diversity_ this mud should aim at, in order to prosper and survive. ( Probably another inappropriate application of social Darwinism, yet not invalid by experience.... My own at least!)
Lastly, above the complains about a pkill increasing or a playability hardship, I think that any measure which leads to decrease the playable possibilities of roleplay (and by roleplay I also do include which is usually not considered as such by some respectability nazis, i.e. playerkill, black ops, powerplaying, impartiality, or hugglebears parties, etc...) will result with high discontentment, whining, and ultimately suicides.
And those precisely are the effects of the last measures taken, though I think they'll eventually be fixed, _if and only if_ adjusted wisely.
However awkwardly Ayn_Randish it may sound,
.S
[new] Date: 23. Sep, 2005, 12:39:29 By: Tilion Remove
'And then they changed the High Council voting weights such that they got five times the vote value that Overlords receive.'
Huge mistake and pissed off pretty much EVERYONE and made all overlords feel inferior and disencouraged to work. Then again, the mud has been democracy when it came to making decisions, props could be overruled and probably have been. It's a dictatorship and always will be. Your opinions matter not. /wave
So your willingness to volunteer and code is based on your wanting power?
This is the reason im kind of glad you guys got your power cut. Along with the fact that I dont trust half of you with my IP address.
Weighting votes may have had bad timing when it was put in, and its purpose at the time to undermine the system as a whole, but its still something that should be.
'A good shot in this direction is the Numenorean camp in BD where the dark numenoreans do not favour other races (i.e. you cant enter the camp if you are not wearing their cloak). Props to whoever coded that.'
Any ER or Servant can waltz in.
By the way..this mud still lacks things. The ainur do great jobs coding but sometimes their knowledge of Tolkien's world is to say the least, poor.
For example, the VARIAGS are NOT darkskinned. I've searched everything about them and never found anything like that. I really wish to see the explanation of the people who coded them darkskinned. Where exactly did they read that?
Not all of the ERs are on Sauron's side because they are submitted to him. Many of the tribes (the Variags, to some extent the Haradrim) are with him in their pursuit of power, plunder (the Variags) etc.
When the One Ring was thrown into Orodruin and the Black Tower fell, all allies of Sauron stopped fighting. Except the VARIAGS - they were there to plunder and came ALONG with Sauron. They were not forced to fight like the orcs. I think this is in the LoTR. Wonder why the description of the Variags says they are LOYAL to Sauron???
Also, the ERs are not too tollerable to each other - they fight among themselves. (the first thing Frodo witnessed after Shelob\s lair were fighting orcs) Where are the ER vs ER logs then???
A good shot in this direction is the Numenorean camp in BD where the dark numenoreans do not favour other races (i.e. you cant enter the camp if you are not wearing their cloak). Props to whoever coded that.
There is general disregard in this mud to the 'impartial' side of the peoples of the Middle Earth. In Hobbiton they hadn't even heard of Rivendell, let alone of the lands beyond it. How come we have 'morals' and 'immorals' in these lands? Only the White Council and the peoples of the East were engaged in the War of the Ring.
There are other things too like the fact that the elves almost shot down Gimli and that he would chop them down if the Fellowship wasn't there, but, blah, it's not good to flame so much:)
Byron is always right:P
10 hours of reading and what did I learn.. hmm, Byron is right.
'And then they changed the High Council voting weights such that they got five times the vote value that Overlords receive.'
Huge mistake and pissed off pretty much EVERYONE and made all overlords feel inferior and disencouraged to work. Then again, the mud has been democracy when it came to making decisions, props could be overruled and probably have been. It's a dictatorship and always will be. Your opinions matter not. /wave
I agree with everyone.
I was just thinking that it is probable that the ER/FR situation was built with the intent of increased player interaction.
However, I would say that the amount of excess guilds has decreased the overall amount of player interaction.
Getting banged by ERs < doing stuff with guildmates.
I like cake too
Nice arguments I suppose. Couldn't read any of the 100 and something except the congratulation on the independence, thank you too|:P
Well, Mani, I know what is to have something you have worked on ruined. Still, I think you've done a great job:)
Anyway, I stopped mudding..hmm, two years ago because I
1. didn't have time to
2. everybody was given equal chances in PK (the lawsys available to everybody and every new ainu coding a HB thinking it was very smart) The importance of skill was reduced to nothing in favour of spending countless hours of gathering equipment. 5 years ago people still didn't have a phial every time they went out of GH. They generally would try to fight back and set you up instead of merely reporting (with some certain exceptions, won't mention names, I've forgotten anyway;).
From what I can see now, the MUD has changed - perhaps the changes were good since they removed fade. There are enough breaks even without using deception if you are skilled enough.
I once spent 52 hours online and I've spend over 24 hours online many times but I cannot do this anymore. Many others can't either I think.
The fact that players like Devon stopped playing should mean something.
Well, anyway, greetings to everyone, be well:)
All the best to all new players and to all old ones as well:)
Thanks
Yay! Happy Bulgarian Independence Day!
Scatha joke about squashing the dreams of hopeful mortals?
You obviously need to get to know him a bit better.
That smile was pure enjoyment of the process :)
'Scatha
'(ok, we now have them begging for things through petitions, but it's easy to just deny them :P)'
You want our ideas, but then you make a comment like this?'
You did notice the big smiley after that, signifying a joke.
Scatha
'(ok, we now have them begging for things through petitions, but it's easy to just deny them :P)'
You want our ideas, but then you make a comment like this?
I stopped doing petitions for a long time because I had been shown some of the valinor responses to mortal passed petitions.
'I hate autoloads' DENIED
For the record, I didn't leave in a hissy fit about any new changes or anything, I just ran out of beornings to kill :(
And by the way, no matter how much the current situation sucks and no matter how much hatred this place and the people in it have for me, I will always remember it for the fun I've had here. After all, I have put so much love in it. And so much time. That is roughtly 260days of age with nearly 14maxed characters.
Thenardi.. One abrubt change makes a couple of people leave. The other are happy with it, stay. then another change and another change and suddenly you're 10 people short. that's what's happening:)-
So after asking some people....it seems more are happy with the changes. The people that are just upset about it bitch about it on here and are very inactive/or just idle all the time. The game is fairly balanced imo, FRs just need to get their act together and fight!
So...conclusion is ppl hate this game? farewell armath
Well I dont know most of you sadly but I wish I did, you all seem to have made the mud what it was. I am taking part in leaving because it takes too much time and just lost the fun, arguing with Castamir on the comm with many just made me think they didnt really care what the social people of the mud want or care about. Much respect is granted for those who've been here, and made the game fun for me and many other players, wish I knew more of you but have fun and goodbye.
Maybe you should shut down the server for good if people are so unhappy...
Bye Drille. Was a pleasure knowing you.
Think 'fanboy'. Then think 'boi'. Then combine the two.
Probably not.
The question is, do I want to know what fanboi means?
I still have Camillus' 'mmm' semote as my own. I'm such a fanboi.
I like Scatha too.
I like Draugluin. <-- He's given me a smile before.
I also like Drille.
Sic transit gloria mundi.
Bye, Drille. You rock.
HIT ME BABY ONE MORE TIME?
'My english aint that great and most stuff has already been mentioned so i'll save all of you from me repeating everything'
It's vastly better than Krimpatul's, and vastly better than my bulgarian.
</flame> Sorry, I couldn't resist
My english aint that great and most stuff has already been mentioned so i'll save all of you from me repeating everything
Tho the part that strikes me the best is the one (I think) Eznima told us. Tolkiens world wasn't that realistic so who are we to say that some stuff isn't realistic in his world when he didn't really have strict lines on what could be or not be. and his world wasn't perfect and we shouldn't be afraid of side stepping the truth a little to make this a better game
I never really had any problem with any ainur and most ainurs are prolly the nices dudes on this game but some ainurs got alot of heat here on this comment section and I guess you should think about it. Don't think about every bad insult people keeps on shooting at you but maybe it's time to treat the players here with a little more respect and a smile now and then. And a personal note this petition crap is just a god damn insult when you keep on saying it's making it easier for you to reject everything. And I've never underestimated the work you guys put here, but still me and many others put as much time playing the game, it was your decision to immort so don't use the fact that we are here just to play, against us and that we don't help out with the coding. If you say we probably don't approach you with the best attitude then I would agree but it must go both way I guess.
This will be my goodbye, I tip my hat to the Beornings and the bulgarians. Neither of em will never get credit for how skilled they really are. I also tip my hat to every enemy I've had on this game, almost everybody I've spent any time getting to know are cool people and I wish you all the luck in the future. I've decided to not mention any names but to all my friends out there I bow and thank you for everything the years I've been here
I wish you guys the best of luck and I thank the admins for all the great fun you have provided
Guess it's time for the moral equivilant of legions, and make guilds support one or another.
I totally agree with Naith.
If I had a Top 10 Funniest Comments Ever, Scatha would have just had a new entry shoot in at Number 5. I'm not even sure if it's actually funny in itself, or if it's because I was just grateful to have a laugh whilst wading through such a bleak and demanding list of comments.
I'm going to post this as one of the minority of players who is not angry at some group or another. I don't hate Draugluin, and I haven't subscribed to any conspiracy theories. I'm getting too old to be playing games anyway, so whilst T2T getting worse is not what I want, it's probably what I need.
So, whilst everyone is giving a postmortem on T2T, let me give mine.
The two fundamental issues which signified the steep descent into discontent are, in my opinion, these:
(a) There are too many factions.
(b) PvP is no longer a choice.
When I say that there are too many factions, what I'm specifically referring to is the number of guilds and the ease and frequency with which new ones spring up, resembling some form of guildhall epidemic. With each new society, you're introducing a new voice to an already over-subscribed arena. This inevitably leads to an increase in politics, and thus in turn, increased negative PvP. When the number of guilds was a manageable handful, it was clear to all the boundaries set out by each one, so it was pretty simple to know what not to do to invoke the wrath of any particular one. Now, you have so many areas and npcs protected by guild x that it's difficult for any non affiliated mid level explorer wanting to keep from getting drawn into politics to keep track.
The value of PvP has been diminished, partly by the glut of factions, but more notably by the ER FR interaction. Speaking personally, I like PvP interaction. I also like cake. In moderation. I don't want to be forcefed it all the time.
PvP is so intense now that the imminent relaxing of Mordor's entry system means little, essentially because all of East Arda is virtually a Mordor experience. The choice needs to be put back into whether to PvP mud or not at a player level, not a mud level. Make Mordor and surrounding areas the focus for PvP. How do you do this? Address gangbanging. People wouldn't be complaining about being 5 to 10 manned all the time if it wasn't just so damn easy to 5 to 10 man. I put in a proposal to nerf gangbanging by having the stalk skill counteract the wilderness skill when both were being used. It was turned down because something apparently is in the works for banging. I've no idea what that is, or how soon it is around the corner.
Basically, you can sum up all my diatribe with this:
(1) Remove 50%-70% of the current guilds. Why? To prune some of the symptoms of additional politics, being forced into PvP by mandates such as widespread 'area protection' and 'npc protection', and simply just to give guildhalls some meaning and status again.
(2) Reign as much PvP interaction as possible back to Mordor and surrounding areas. Why? To make Mordor significant - which at the moment, it is not - and give the choice back to the players what kind of mudding experience they'd like to have.
I'd just like to say, for the record, that I hate Valinor, if only because they made me agree with Eznima and Winnetou, two individuals the result of whom I led my guild to war, and Deboraha, who I was habituated by friends and experience to despise.
So... yeah. Thanks a fucking bunch for making me feel dirty.
And damn you three for being correct. sdgdfjaersesrgzdfxl
Draugluin, I have yet to see anywhere that someone states that you wish to destroy the MUD. However, I and others have stated that your arrogant refusal to listen to the playerbase and continued implementation of the series of changes along the lines which you have been conducting will directly lead to the eventual 'death' of T2T.
You created an authoritarian environment where the only opinions that are veted in Valinor are the ones you approve of. Sure, the Mortal Council was a wreck for a long time and was always a half-assed implementation from Valinor but the players on the MC at least offered a different perspective. However you actively campaigned to have it removed and worked against it at every opportunity. I knew it wouldn't last when I saw that you called your exit from your workroom to the MC room 'Freakshow'.
So you re-created the MC after all this time but instead of the players picking, you have hand-picked your group. I'm sure if that is how you seek to manage the players that you will employ a similar despotic technique in Valinor so that only the coders who reflect your opinions back to you, or know to stay silent, remain. The question is, if you only pick people you like, where will you get variety and oppositionary opinions that will be necessary for healthy product development?
See, that's one attitude problem that has always existed on T2T, even in the earliest days, that T2T is not a product and players are not customers, but it is and they are. It has always been viewed as this or that admin's pet project that they are kindly enough to share with the players. Well, that only flies so long as the pet project remains attractive to the public. What people are saying here over and over is that the product isn't attractive anymore but some of them still care enough to try to tell you how to make it attractive again. I am not one of them.
You specifically, Draugluin, created an environment where I realised there was no point to having any attachment to the game any longer because there would be no fun for me any longer so I quit.
Anyway, that is beside the point now. You (and this is a Valinor in general you, not a Draugluin you, although Draugluin is free to take what I say to heart)need to change the attitude that T2T is purely a pet project to be tinkered with at your whimsy if you wish to maintain your playerbase. T2T is a product and Valinor is the product development department and the players are the customers who invest the private time from their lives, and some even money in the form of donations, into the product of T2T.
People have stopped buying your product with the currency of their time and consideration. You should very quickly now seek a means to plug the leak and keep your customers happy and then continue to keep them happy. I know what I would do if I were in this position. I hope you can come to rapid solution as well.
Good luck. You will need it.
First off, Killem, bitchass is copyrighted by me, dont every use it again.
Secondly, I totally agree with Otoron. Oldies have been coming here to point out to the admin where they believe the mud have fallen off-track and forced them to leave. We are not just critisizing the changes because we do not like changes. As you have read, most of us really did enjoy specific changes and balancing efforts put into the game. The reality of the problem lies in the fact that the game is not enjoyable anymore due to the obscene changes that took place. Individuality has and will always be prime target for every individual and group in the game. To be unique is something we strive for and to that effect we did not agree on the guild change. I believe that limiting the number of guilds to a specific number would help encourage people to obay certain RP standards and stick to them. Allowing players left and right to create guilds because they cannot fit the standards of the already existing guilds is the real issue of the problem.
Evil races, thats an issue i have no solution for but to ask that you allow people to vote on weather to revert to the original ER's and modify them or stick to the current once. If a lot of people decide that the current ER system is far more appropriate (note appropriate not only couple of monthes worth of fun) then yes, stick to these once. When we refered you to a specific time period of the mud, that did not mean disregard all the efforts made from that period till now. Instead, why dont you build up on that version and implement the changes you know would satisfy the playability of the mud. The old ER's were overly ristricted, building from there could be a better solution.
To reeth, when i come here give my openion and like many others, we do so because we want the game to go back to the way it was fun before. Not because we want to cause a riot between the current very limited player base.
Now, i feel i repeated myself enough. I wont comment unless there is a specific response to certain issues. Sorry for the rant.
'HAHAHA, Spansh. You're amazing. CORRUPT coders.
'The old guilds weren't fair. Some guilds had really cool things and others didn't.''
I think you'll find you're not quoting ME there winnetou. I'll thank you to direct your arguments in the correct direction next time.
Word.
I like the idea of removing find/sense/sniff but also add 'legend' to that, bitchass paranoid people legend me every 5 minutes then comm my location on comm every few seconds all while i'm in telloff and camod and never been spotted
What if the Osgiliath and Anduin bridges were destroyed and the river was too powerful/deadly to swim across, and ERs had a back way into Mordor? And FRs have Shelob and the gates. Then all dealings between the FRs and ERs would end up done through Mordor. They could still enter the evil and free lands, just it'd be a little harder than travelto osgiliath/pelargir. It'd also be a little easier to guard against as there'd be less entry points into the enemy lands.
Or close all borders and just have little events like I remember seeing a long time ago, where the ERs are all sent to Edoras, where a big fight between moral aligned FRs and ERs/evil aligned FRs fight it out. During it, I remember seeing the shops and mead hall burned out with scorch marks everywhere.
RoI don't have special access to Henneth Annun anymore, Winnetou. What's more, I didn't let them have it, it wasn't my decision. What's more, RoI lost more than just about any other guild with the guild changes. Of course, I don't have to explain myself here, but it'd be so rude of me to not defend myself in the face of crass accusations. I have no vested interest in RoI, and that's even before I found out most of them had suddenly decided they didn't like me anyway.
Anyway, sorry to belittle your front-page scoop, or really, rather, I'm not sorry to chuckle at how pathetic you have to slump in order to get some sort of point across - interjecting something completely unrelated in just for the sake of slinging some shit around? If you MUST single me out as a problem area, pay me the respect of at least thinking up something more original or hurtful, something to really get my teeth stuck into. Weak unsubstantiated lies are a decided erection-killer.
Better still, email Draugluin or something with some kind of proof or even accusations of what I've supposedly done in my oh-so evil deeds of abusing power and position to benefit people I grew apart from a long time ago. It'd be a welcome break from the usual line of argument of 'you're gay, haha'. Shout outs go to Kalrykh, my love.
Woo #81!!!!
As one of the greatest players ever, I thought I should add my 2 cents. Draugluin becoming PoL is the worst thing to ever happen to this mud. The end.
Wow there is a lot of writing here, I think you all summed it up basically, I'm thinking about leaving as well, sorta already did. Its all about pking as stated and I miss the friendly rp battles, oh well life goes on, keep up the work everyone who cares.
I'm not sure that would help, Squibb, without also doing a lock-down again.
(help with the problem, I mean....taken by itself, and not as a solution to anything, it sounds fine)
Bring back missions for evils!!
No need to have a band of trolls magically pull us back to Mordor or anything, but being given a mission to go into dangerous FR lands and perform a certain action then go back for a good reward was a great part of what made ER's fun for me. Missions made playing an evil more than just levelling up so you could kill some FR's.
Just an opinion from an ex-player.
And I apologize if that was a '500 line soliloquy'... but I didn't think putting my post into dialogue form would have made much sense.
So let's just call it an explication.
Can you point to a couple instances of people accusing you of deliberately sabotaging the game?
I think you are confusing the opinion that you are inadvertently hurting the MUD through your changes with the opinion that you are a bunch of evil tyrants bent on destroying their own kingdom for the sake of destruction.
The latter is, of course, absurdly stupid. The former, however, is a cogent position worthy of debate. Valinor has in the past made mistakes. It will in the future. Admitting them and fixing the inadvertent negative impacts of them has been done, and hopefully will in the future.
Often in the past the indictments made were of specific localized changes, and as such they could be fixed quite easily without reverting to 'Arda circa 1998', etc.
In this case a crucial idea being presented by a multitude of voices is that the underlying premise of the MUD has shifted, and that the change is not welcome. Because recent changes are qualitatively different than most previous changes, and the basic underlying question of such is whether or not the new underlying premises of the MUD are desired or not.
To make a thought experiment to corrolate our problems. We are facing a world where the welfare state is in decline. Many people are shouting out agains this and against what they see as the 'Americanization' of their national, particular versions of capitalism. Some people are doing this by throwing bricks through windows. Some people are doing this via questioning the underlying assumptions of neoliberal economics in academic journals. Often times those people who support the changing nature of global capitalism reply, 'This is the way it is, whether you like it not, and you have to adapt. Sure, we'll make a few minor concessions to smooth over some of the roughest impacts of the shifting nature of economic life, but the basic questions are settled.'
Only they're not there, and even less so here. There ARE agents in economics, be they corporations, state institutions, or individual actors. And even more so there ARE agents consciously undertaking change in Arda. And they're the Admin. And for you to act as if the changes were out of your control, or anyone's control, is patently false. And branding people who don't agree with your particular ideological position on the famous question of 'what is to be done' as being Chicken Littles or irrelevant is as intellectually dishonest as it is institutionally.
Neither I nor most others have seriously said 'start over', and to say such is an unfair misrepresentation of our views. Rather, we have said 'let's have a discussion about the underlying assumptions of what Arda is supposed to be'. And as we know what it was, and what we would like it to be, we think certain changes should be reversed. Not that battlepoint need to be 'tweaked', but that the very system they are a part of is at question.
Now, feel free to say, 'We don't care if you think this should be up for debate or there should be a discussion on these issues. And the idea that we would reverse some of them is laughable.' But when you do, please do it honestly, and openly, and realizing it is in fact you, and not just those who disagree with you, who are stubborn, wrong about the way things should be, or needlessly clinging to a specific conception of Arda.
Well one way to limit the constant Evil banging is by removing find and sense. Things would take a lot more time in pvp interactions. If you took out find and sense sure it could be a very bad change, but you could stage huge battles at certain popular points of the game for those RPers. And it would also be difficult for someone who is on the run to hide.
Ideas like this one, only probably more favorable ones should be developed in order to correct the current problem.
Sigh.
Its not a 'point of view' to accuse people of cheating, or dishonesty, or anything like that.
You either have some facts, and go to the Power of Law (or Powers in general)...or you don't.
Its not 'constructive criticism' to do the above either.
Let me tell you some other things that aren't constructive and won't help you, whether you're happy, sad, mad or indifferent:
1) 500 line soliloquies stating your belief that there's a problem we've already acknowledged exists. Time wasting. Gets in the way. Delays discussion and movement towards a fix. 'Hey hey hey, this is messed up' -- 'Okay, we hear you, lets figure something out' -- 'Hey hey hey this is messed up' (x200)...Frown. Sadness!
1a) Chicken Little syndrome. If the sky in your neighborhood is falling, you shouldn't be playing an online game anyway. If its not, don't make it your job to be Hyperbolic Guy(tm) -- especially since a lot of this seems to tie into 1), where some of you are getting all Chicken Little on the rest of us over things we've already said we hear and realize.
2) 1 line soliloquies about how everything 'sucks'. So don't make the mistake of thinking a witty, loud, profane, or otherwise unhelpful rant is going to 'make them see', or 'have an effect'. It doesn't. Again, the only thing you're accomplishing is making it harder to fix whatever actually IS bothering you, while everyone has to suffer through a helpless rant.
3) 'ideas' that the key to everything is to 'start over'. There is no starting over. There is no 'xxxx'-year game. There is no 'removing the things I personally hate but leaving in the 3000 bugfixes and helpful features installed during the same timeframe'. If you can't get this out of your head, don't read further because you are beyond our help. Just try and keep quiet and let the rest of your fellow players talk...you won't be able to provide anything useful.
4) peppering your opinion with accusations, especially unsupported ones. I'd be glad to talk with anyone about any specific change, especially if it was my idea or I supported it - tell me you don't like it...maybe I don't either...but don't try and tell me the reason it was done was to hurt the game. Get a clue. If Valinor were out to end the game we'd just end it. It'd cost a lot of people a lot less time, stress, money, and frustration. Don't try to martyr-ize yourself and demonize the very people you want to make this change or that change (more work), its silly. Right, wrong...good idea, bad idea....okay. Weird accusations that it was done on purpose to hurt the game...and thus ourselves? Come on!
Good job of making this game one big pile of STINK!
It isn't fun for the people who liked the adventure
the game once had. I shake my fist with fury at the
Ainurs!
'latest comment' = latest two comments, since you posted another one while I was writing mine, dammit.
Dude, Winnetou, I think your PoV on the RoI issue is flawed, mostly because the examples you cite are not factually correct.
As for everything else in your latest comment... I agree entirely. It's pretty much the same thing that any intelligent player has been saying for years. I still recall when Melkor, in a long conversation during his push for Arda v2, told me that I should train stalking as a wizard and hunt people to death as an assassin-wizard. He was so 'out of the loop' of gameplay that he didn't even realize only assassins can hunt. Just my favorite example.
But I agree, pretty much 100%, on that. It's also interesting to note that so many of the most recent changes were done without significant testing of them... as if it wasn't obvious to anyone not caught up in the allure of changing things and molding them to your vision that the disasterous results would occur. But even then, had they been tested you'd have seen them changed.
But whatever. All my chars got silenced and I got softbanned because all I do is spew venom and hate, so fuck it. I'll spend my time elsewhere; perhaps we'll have a drink next time I'm in Plovdiv and badmouth Valinor :P
Also, regarding the uncountable number of implemented changes and the continuous flow of more and more new things. I've said this before, I am mentioning it now again: Stick to the bugs and irrelevancies in the mud. Instead, you are implementing more and more things that are supposed to balance the situation but you are making it even more complex and it becomes impossible to see whether it's balanced. And with the unstopping changes, it is hard to just stand on your feet and play. You just have to keep adjusting to the situation and keep and keep and keep and where's the fun in that? As somebody mentioned, a lot of people just want to play the game as it is(or as it was), not to watch this place turning into another mud. And it is another mud, as Otoron mentioned. Another game, definitely not the same.
Otoron, I am not here to argue or call you names. I am writing my PoV and you are free to disagree. My example is just one of the many blowups of this mud.
Everybody says: think constructively, suggest ideas. I've suggested a _countless_ propositions, a few of which relatively detailed. I know of many other people who have done so too. And the majority gets shot down by ainur who haven't even played the mud for a long time - and yes, there is some truth in this statement. You can't convince me that the ainur who have the final say on important decisions know as much of the PlayStyle and needs of the mud as an active player. So you just shoot ideas and then complain there have been no ideas - I am sorry guys, it is you who are supposed to be working on this, not us. It is you who are supposed to be looking for ideas and researching them - not just shooting them down because one or two people find them irrelevant.
time for me to add my comment
err but its been said too much already
umm.. roll back to mud two years ago and everything is fine
young kids become powers, remeber all the 'bad/evil players' disregard their input in matters which they are very knowledgeable in and once again we have the ego trips.
I've said it before and i'll do it again, the guildchange was bad, ER's are bad. Ponder putting in a pvp tag, turn it on to pvp and off to not, with penalties in time. You will notice that the Pvp'rs will only be able to mess around with eachother and not gank random people that do'nt give a damn about the ego trip adrenaline rush from ruining someone elses time.
Winnetou, even if the facts of your post weren't grossly incorrect, the entire thrust was. When our hall was desced and started to be coded, Scatha didn't even exist as an immortal.
We had a cool clock in our guildhall, and a sauna, that is damned true. And a hidden entrance, like many other halls still have.
Of course, the sauna had been around since before I even started mudding, and the clock was something other guilds had, and most likely any guild could have gotten had they thought to ask for one.
Seriously, though, your accusations that an OL is intentionally bug-abusing for a guild is funny. Mostly because it's factually so incorrect on so many levels.
Ah, well. Your little uninformed rantings will be something I miss, Winniepooh.
There have been a bunch of good posts on this comment section, though I think that still more solutions should be flying around.
1. Thenardi had a good idea regarding find/sense (unthematic). If we were to get rid of both of those abilities then people would have to figure out the location of someone the old fashioned way; askingfriends or others, or actually taking time to scout out their patterns and favorite quests (you know, like it suggests when you try and claim a contract too early) and then sitting and waiting for scouts to do their work.
2. I like the idea of people not participating in pk though still able to participate in battle-points and the war of the ring. Perhaps if they sustain lethal damage from a PC they go unconscious and drop all their gear and gold instead of dying, though if they shield someone they could still have a chance of dying (to prevent people from running around and being human shields without gear or gold on them).
3. Perhaps add a quest that makes people unhuntable for a certain amount of time
Yeah, I had more ideas but I'm at work and getting busier by the minute. And now I guess I don't know about the second idea either, anyways, the gods want more ideas to try and help, lets give them an overflow.
Camillus Groktongue
HAHAHA, Spansh. You're amazing. CORRUPT coders.
'The old guilds weren't fair. Some guilds had really cool things and others didn't.'
Since I no longer play I will tell you about the guildhall of RoI that has been kept a secret for ever since it was coded. Does the average player even know where it is situated? No? Do you know why? Because it is hidden. In the water. And it has a special command(similar to climb X) to be enterred. And the entrance exit(such as north or 'pit') isn't written on the description. What is more, it has another special command in case you want to leave the room. Doesn't this sound amazing, considerring that now all guilds are STANDARTIZED?
Why are RoI getting a special treatment? Ask Scatha, he should know best because he has spent at least 150d playing as a member of Rimsilval. You think they aren't getting a special treatment? Let me not tell you more about bugs that have been abused and preferencial treatments of RoIs. I will give you this hint: do you know why a single RoI that is on on the reboot with a profession of a warrior can obtain?
I'll let you think whatever you please about ainur who always take the right decisions, have no favourites, never nuke the innocent people and always judge fairly.
I still believe that Arda v2 was something that helped to do this game in. The lifestyle that it would've implemented would not have made this game fun. A lot of the things that the false dream of v2 brought are still here, the plan has been scrapped, so should the changes. Sometimes license has to be taken with theme to account for survivability and that just isn't the case with the influx of all the changes. My advice would be a rollback, I mean, its at a critical point, no one wants to log on anymore
I'll relate it with the Meg/FRA war, during certain times one side would be so overpowered as to push the other into activity, that wasn't because the game was unbalanced, but a certain amount of power one had gained. With the current warscape both sides have gone inactive.. that sir is imbalance.
Wankers! :)
I hear ye Manni, I hear ye.
Reeth, ok screw this, I wasn't only playing ER's and I certainly wasn't complaining about imbalance, I might have complained that I was being 8manned left and right (and yes you were involved in two of those 8man's).
I can also prove I wasn't only playing ER's, as it was me who showed you around Harondor and Near Harad on one of my FR chars (Yeah thats revealing my alt information but I barely care I don't play much and some people know anyway).
Its in the last couple of months that the game has become like this spansh,and you wouldnt have noticed anyway because before that you were only playing on the evil side (and moaning that it was unbalanced for evils all the time anyway)
Also, having been on the side of the evil races, i know that it is not just because i cause them lots of harrassment that they have 10 manned me...i have helped 10 man a number of random helpless people as an er, sometimes people who have been trapped in mt because of us, much like teions log, its sick....but hey, im not going off at the ers, its the ainurs fault for letting them do it, they are not gonna pass up the opportunity...i just got tired of it.
Oh...and this is my last post on the matter, as i dont care what happens to this place anymore, i just thought id try and save it for the people i like who do still play (although thats very few now), but i dont know why i bother, because it seems the ainur only listen to idiots who dont even know whats going on in the game anymore anyway.
Bye guys....hope the game turns out for the best for you, it certainly didnt for me
Oh yes, while I was still active enough to quest real equips and spend all my time in Harandor...I remember many times logging on at the Kadar inn (boy was that a mistake) and finding myself right in the middle of some fight. Good thing I'm in Durbatuluk and the garrison was close by! Because I got chased the whole way there by 5-6 FRs. I remember being holed up in there with Wargrish one time right after logging on, because an FR party was sitting in our garrison with us stuck in our armoury.
Then we've all been the targets of a nice sized FR war party while trying to retake the battlepoints. Remember that time not all that long ago, when the entire warscape except for Mordor was always green?
It sounds like now that the FRs have it a little harder (as in, the way the ERs had it the whole time before the changes), they're all complaining.
I don't want to get killed as I don't play enough to get my level back fast, so I stick to FH. It isn't hard, there's a -lot- to do there.
I don't see why everybody's so upset about the whole PvP MUD thing. When I played my FR, I was seeing people getting killed left and right. I made an assassin to hunt orcs in Moria with! And I was killed twice when I hit 7 and again when I hit 9, then again at 11. This without making any enemies! Face it, it's always been a PvP MUD. All these new changes really did was point fingers in the direction of PvP and say 'hey, this stuff really is happening.'
But you all made the place unpleasant for newbies from the start, with the random killings. Lets not forget all those throw away characters. Mid level assassin, kill everybody in Rivendell, then never log on again. Then there's the occasional FR spree-kill party (there was a log not long ago, for example).
I remember once, I read a help file that said the MUD wasn't a PvP MUD, but allowed PvP with penalties. When I brought that up, everybody laughed at me and said of course it was a PvP MUD! Come to think of it, it might have been the description written for it in zMUD. Either way, it's always been PvP. Newbies had to deal with it or quit as a ghost.
Reeth, I chose to post as Spansh mainly because I was responding to Manni and it seemed more appropriate, I've only been gone a month or two, and I still log in from time to time, just not on Spansh.
You've spent time with two of my characters in the space of about 4 months, one as an opponent on the ER side and one who helped you in the fight against the ER's.
(Your point about being banged by 10 ER's was probably because you've bene known to come into harondor/near harad and harass lower and higher level ER's with attempts/kills/bangs so you're a target, you get sense/finds run on you if you're out, we tend to know about it.
How funny...not a single person i can see here is actually someone who is playing the game...on either the free race or evil race side. I dont know why i have come back here to comment, as i like winnetou have that same feeling that i will not be back because the game just isnt worth it.
Maybe before ANYONE else even bothers to comment they should actually play the game as it currently is. Anyone who says people should stop winging and be constructive is a moron. This game needs to be changed quickly ainur, or you will have no one left playing. Before i left i was active on both the evil and free race side and can tell you this game is ridiculous. I could log on my level 15 er and join in on a raid within like half an hour, kill like 5 or 6 frs and leave.
Now my frs....i log on to find the entire warscape red. What do i do? i look to the ic comm for people to help me out in fighting back...what do i get? a few ugh the ers already banged me, i have no eq etc from newbies who have no clue what they are talking about, and that is it. I look at the ic comm and see that at least half the people on the comm are either idlers who do nothing all day, either because they have been like that for ages, or because they are afraid to leave their gh ever again because ers bully them. Well the other day i decided i would try and fight back against the warscape for the billionth time and ended up getting demolished by a party of no less than 10 ers before i could even get to the inn room of the one person i had managed to get to help me fight back against this army. After this i had had enough.
Here is a comment from someone who was actually still playing the game (until a few days ago) maybe you should listen to that instead of the idiot who pretend to know whats going on.
Reeth.
Re Eznima:
From the player point of view, I always knew the guild change would suck, I think everyone knew that it wouldn't be a popular change. I think some hoped that the idea of being able to openly make a guild that you want would offset that and make it a little better. It didn't. But from our perspective it's better because we no longer have 20-odd guilds begging for things to be coded (ok, we now have them begging for things through petitions, but it's easy to just deny them :P). The old guilds weren't fair. Some guilds had really cool things and others didn't. And the old guilds weren't perfect, people complained just as much then as now. Really, all that has happened to detriment is that the prices have gone up (something we are trying to remedy again and have been for a good month or two!) and there are no special actions that can be done in guildhalls. Everything else from the point of view of a guildmember has really stayed the same, so I never really understood the loud complaints. Old guildhalls stayed just about the same through the transition.
Granted in some ways I wish we could go back to the old system, but keep some of the new things in, like... the better coded daemons that don't give newbie maiar access to every guild member list! I don't think it would happen though.
I don't care! It's a GAME ;-)
And IMHO it's so complex I could play it alone for a couple of years without being tired, why not to open another MUD without PvP interaction? that would be great for asocial people like me *grin*
No one likes you, Betus. Die.
'I like a game that changes as it's less boring... you die, oh well, it's part of the game, it has been always and it will be always (and I know it very well as I die constantly)'
That may be as so, but this MUD has always had a higher inherrant cost (with regards to time taken to get back to where you were) than many other MUD's (with the exception of permadeath mud's). These have bene lessened somewhat with the changes (lower exp loss, lower stats loss for ERvFR) but if I die it still takes a good 6-7 hours to get back to where I was, unless I happened to be prepared for it and have gold and exp to spare.
Erm, well, you're going to throw some stones to me but.. I like the MUD with less people, more quests for me! and more time to explore ;-)
Seriously, I don't know how people is complaining so much about the recent changes, I like a game that changes as it's less boring... you die, oh well, it's part of the game, it has been always and it will be always (and I know it very well as I die constantly), I like the current danger in West Arda, it truly represents the books, you can be attacked in everywhere, you MUST cooperate with your friends to be safe, never travel alone! never go low! if you want to be safe go to the Shire...
I am so in!
Goodbye, MUD!
and...scene!
Fuck it, Mithgil. Let's go bowling.
Sorry Rhoads. It's time.
'So that's my advice to you. This is how the mud is right now. So I guess there's a few options available if you don't like something. Grin and bear it. Bitch and bear it. Leave the mud.'
Grimscar, read Deboraha's post. People do leave the mud, and less people coming in. If you understand simple math then its simple to come up with the conclusion that eventually, no more people for you to pk.
Scatha: 'Thing is, it's hard to 'fix' something when 90% of the feedback you're getting from the players is 'this sucks, completely remove it, and while you're at it, remove a,b,c...x,y,z too, they fucking suck''
I will refer back to my guildchange argument because thats the last one I was around to protest. Listen dude, when you want to do such a drastic change, I believe you need to have a global mud vote proposing your change and see the initial reaction you get. If the reaction was as strong and negative as it was to the guildchange you should have atleast backed off and came up with another proposition. I feel, and that is strictly my openion (although I feel a huge chunk would agree with me), that the guilds were fine the way they were but with some problems. It was prestigious to be a member of an ancient guild defending its theme and morals because you would be distinguished. When the admin decided it was time to change the guilds they should have saught a reaction towards the change before implementing whatever they want and listened to ideas. When you get a message declaring that a change is about to happen, which you had no previous knowledge of, your obvious reaction to that change would be a big No. You cannot expect people who have been mudding way before you even learned about this place to accept these changes with an open heart just because you decided it was time to change.
You got a petition that was so dominantly supported that the change SUCKED, why did you not listen? Was it not in the form of 'feedback' you wanted? Of course you would say that the wheels are already rolling, but those wheels shouldnt be rolling, and you should have seeked the reaction of the people who would have been affected by such a change.
I think the arguments of this thread drifted away from the real core of it. Gangbangs would always be there and it will never be solved, so i think its pointless to bitch about it. However, i do believe that the currents twists and turns would only help in strengthening gangbangs claims to get people killed.
In my openion, the mud did not need an open ended ERs who can do what FR's can, because they simply ruin the playability and exploration of the mud. The original slaved ER's were much more efficient, and satisfied their purpose quiet accurately, they defended mordor very well, and mordor became such a hard place to enter. In addition, newbies were able to learn about these ER's from encountering them during the ER's missions, and maybe die once or twice, but in the end, they would know where are the boobie traps are and be ready eventually.
Khelben, during my time in the mud I was never 'bored of it' because there was always new things happpening. When you say you get tired of killing NPC's that does not mean that everyone else is. Some people do not enjoy player vs player action and would like to have fun on their own. Does that make them losers? Why should it? Its part of the game and you should not deny them that. You do not have to FORCE everyone to become a client-based-pkilling-whore.
Well I guess I thought I'd chime in here. Everyone who knows me, knows when I see something I don't like, I bitch, whine, complain, beg, plead, etc to get something 'balanced'. (Or what I feel is balanced). Sometimes I am listened to. Sometimes I am not. It usually depends on how many others feel the same way. The truth is, Scatha was right. Valinor DOES listen. You just have to shout loud enough. What do I think of the new changes in the mud? I think overall, its going to be detrimental, as it makes it more focused on PvP. Will it affect me? You bastards didn't have much luck killing me before, I don't expect that to change now. Will it affect most people? Damn straight it will.
For example, I love the new Mordor change. Its great. Mordor is now a great arena for PvP. Do I think other areas should be like this? Yes, yes I do. However, I think maybe new dividing lines should be drawn. Perhaps simply everything south of North Undeep could be turned lawless for all, and have a portion of East Arda still remain under normal law. I don't know. What my point is, is that we need to discuss it, find a way to fix it, and then present that plan rationally. Have I always done it just like that? Fuck no. But then again, the times I didnt, I wasn't listened to.
So that's my advice to you. This is how the mud is right now. So I guess there's a few options available if you don't like something. Grin and bear it. Bitch and bear it. Leave the mud. Or work positively WITH the ainur and with your fellow players, to fix the problem.
May I never have to write such a tree-hugger of a post again.
Grimscar, aka Jason
talk to you on the flip side bud, same goes for bob :P
Please distinguish between newbies and lowbies. I'm pretty sure when you first reached lvl 19 you were still a newbie. The lvl 15 quest is in Lothlorien, where the biggest massacres happen with ER's and serving FR's. I'm evil myself and participate in raids and trap and kill morals and whatever, but I'm looking objectively at this. When I first started playing I know I'd get really upset when I died. Had I been banged by 5 people several times, getting no reimbursements and being unable to take any revenge would've surely made me take a break or stop wasting my time and nerves with this GAME. There's newbies on both the free and evil side, and they want to go out there and explore the whole grid - they are put before this choice: 1. Level to say 15 and explore the grid any where you want, risk to be killed a -lot- before the evils/morals stop going after you out of simple mercy that you've died enough already. OR 2. Use one half of the grid until you're maxed and know what you're doing around here, know how the whole system works, know huntbreaks, be ready to always escape a pk etc etc...
I'm only addressing this issue since it's the only one I feel really concerned about. Not so worried about spreeing, people that know what they're doing will adapt and find ways to avoid dying so much soon enough. As to all the Valinor issues, none of those things would have been raised and discussed by more than one person if there wasn't at least anything true about them, but there's not much I can do about them so I've stopped caring.
Allegedly, the orc/easterling camps around Thranduil's are for player levels 8-10. Heck, when I was involved in coding Gundabad it was supposed to be for levels uhm... well, my (never finished quest) blocked players below 5th and above 14th from entering it... but honestly, Gundabad is a high level area.
Personally, I always found the area around Dale to be more 12-15th level, but I've never ever been a powerplayer. Right now, though, there are NO safe areas for mid-level (10-15th) level players to hunt in. Not FR ones, anyways.
Hrm...I've always wondered what the mud would be like without sense or find. It wouldn't be pk oriented as much. It would be more realistic and more thematic kinda... it would bring more challenge, it would also make people explore more. I've always wished though that cities are ten times larger than what they are and that it actually takes a lonng time to travel distances. But that would seriously hurt the fun of the game.
But as the ainur have already said, give us a thought out solution. Use the forums, make a discussion, come to a rational idea, vote, send it to Draug through your Corr. With every change things are very temporary, you just have to wait for the metal blank to be forged into something less crude. :)
Khelban, I think the 'biggest' complaint is that the underlying assumptions of the MUD have shifted considerably in a very short time. You have people habituated for up to a decade into assuming, expecting, and enjoying a certain type of game. And the type of game has changed. And many people preferred the old kind of game.
That isn't whining, and it isn't unconstructive criticism. It is a justified and understandable position, and Valinor's 'it is changing so deal with it' isn't addressing the concerns being raised in any constructive manner.
It is not that people just 'want it like it used to be' and fear change. It is in fact that many people 'prefer the game they used to have' and think that change for the sake of change, even if it severely dampens the enjoyment they get from playing the game, is unadvisable.
And if you think a newbie should never be in East Arda, then I am curious where your first character spent levels 10-15, and why there are tons of mid-level NPCs all over Rhovanion.
Oh, yeah, and like scatha just put...
We need HELPFUL suggestions not pigheading 'I hate this for stupid reasons so I'm leaving' comments.
Ok, I tend to stay away from this page... but I'll put in my two-cents.
What exactly is the biggest complaint here?
So far
A) FR being killed a lot - I have no comment.
B) Gangbangs - This was dealt with, and will severely limit gangbangs, as far as I know. DEV 42. READ IT, READ IT!!!
C)You don't like the regions system.
-What is so terribly wrong. When this was released, it is marvelously done by the way, it almost actually gave me the want to play this game again. Killing the same NPCs for years gets exordinarily boring if you ask me.
D) Winnetou mentions newbies getting spreekilled... Newbies should not at any time even be in East Arda (it's stupid as the NPCs themselves are way too hard), nor without a huge hit of luck can even there in the first place.
For Pallasch, and for any others who believe we don't listen to what you want or take it on board (I'm sure there are many, many, many): We do listen, and we are listening. We'd be fools not to listen, I think, considering many people obviously feel so badly about the serve changes.
And we're actively working towards coming up with ideas to try to fix things when we've obviously made a misjudgement somewhere along the line. Thing is, it's hard to 'fix' something when 90% of the feedback you're getting from the players is 'this sucks, completely remove it, and while you're at it, remove a,b,c...x,y,z too, they fucking suck'. Not helpful, and likely to get backs up since despite whatever it is that is unpopular, it took hard graft to make them in the first place - a feeling that's just compounded by the fact that it isn't working out as well as expected.
And so I'd like to suggest that the fault lies just as much with some of the players as with us. Gossip posts of how everything sucks, how we're ruining the game and how you're leaving now and not to worry because the door won't hit you on the ass on the way out, aren't really helpful. Long, drawn-out comm arguments don't help either, neither do petitions asking for everything to be removed.
We've listened, we're drawing up what WE think might fix the problem.
Try helping us instead of fighting us, by telling us reasonable, thought-out solutions that you think might work. And don't try to dream up a fix-all solution, because I'd say that's practically impossible. Focus on one problem area, and think how it can be fixed. Then these suggestions can be brought together to form a complete solution. That's my advice, and that's how I hope we go about fixing it. One proposal aiming to fix all the problems is always worrisome for me. Even we can't do that.
Hmm, I think the good luck part at the end midlead some people. I'm not suiciding or promising to never log on again. I'm wishing players and immortals the best of luck in resolving the problems that have been created. But if anyone reading this doesn't log on much anymore, I hope you're doing well.
Bye Manni... :|
What bothers me the most is how the admin are so stuck in the way they want this mud to be, and so frustratingly unresponsive to what mortals want.
Maybe we were better off when things stayed the same
I'd have to agree the increase of PvP is having a negative effect, and a lot of the changes recently have been horrible when it comes to both playability and roleplay. I myself created my Er solely for the free PK, and in the process was slaughtered as a lowbie by over 10 FR assassins while golding in Harondar etc. In return I've killed over 50 different people, most level 16 and over with 0 fines. I have only died against the NPC Patrols, which show that the region system is a decent defense against us roving evil races? :S
It just saddens me that all the turn towards this warlike state has influenced me and taken away from my older style of having fun, with almost 0 PvP but all in exploring, chatting, and hardcore moral elven RP. I'm not alone drifting away from the MUD, the only pleasure I can derive from it is the small rush of killing another person, and that is simply sad. I'm en route to Valinor, but now I don't even feel like wasting my RL time devoting ideas and imagination to the game when they will be sadly unused. I just wish the mystery and imagination and the vehicle to inhabit Tolkien's masterfully crafted world that was once here remained.
I agree with Mizrahi. *gasp*
Spanish, hahaha
well i agree with what Eznima and Deboraha said. Basicly arogance of been power and implementing dev 22 start bringing this game into what it is now. You say 18 players? well that is around number of players who were jumping around draugluin telling him how smart he is and how smart moves he is making. I was pointing out before few months that this will happend and it did. Its not something that i'm supriesed.
Personly, i think that Glaurung was doing much better job been PoL, since of pation that he was putting in solving problems. Probably that for he was removed. oh well.
And Spanish, those examples are really nothing, you supose to see how i'm banging a char bringing him from good cond to -26HP in just one or two rounds, in just one or two rooms :D oh well memorys.
And about Winnetou, instead of bitching, i think you guys no metter if you like him or not, you supose to bow with respect in front of him for what he have done here as player who show skills that have rare been seen here, as quester or pkiller, what I can say same for ppls that i dont even like as persons like delrerango or vildoran and etc...
And finaly, game have passed its time. Yes, there are new kind of grafic games now, offering more then textual based script can do, having better admin (this i must say :D) who really are there to make game
to look like game, for fun and for wasting our free time.
In fact, Here's two people taking (ok best weapons in the game etc) someone down a full maxxed warrior from full HP to 24 HP in 2 rounds (Yes they both used special attacks but still)
http://logs.dyndns.dk/viewer.php/8714
Still think you were hard done by with 3 people taking 8 rounds ?
By killcount I purely mean of course logs I have of me killing, since the kill counter wasn't around then.
'I had a warrior, maxed one. I logged on, wore full eq ( mask, gloves ) and went to lorien signpost. I got hunted by Nasira and attacked by two more of her ERs. I brought them lost southwest of Old Ford. Then I died. I got killed in 8rounds total. Doesn't this sound unbalanced?'
You've done similar to other people yourself (I'm talking typist here we all know who we are). OK that one attempt was with 3 people, I've seen people last less from full verses two people who happened to get lucky and with the new assassins if 3 people backstab I can see people lasting a lot less than 8 rounds.
'Now, imagine a newbie that has a vague knowledge of huntbreaking. Won't that newbie keep dying over and over again after being attacked?'
I would hope that people tend to lay off newbies, I know I do (on the odd occasion I've been known get bored of waiting for someone and just merciful some random lowbie)
'Yes. Countless examples of players who died numerous times just because the casual ER gang party decided to have fun. SPREEING. On newbies'
The same can be said of FR's, I've been at the end (ok I know how to break) of no less than 4 seperate 8 man attempts/kills. At the same time I've seen roving parties during the daytime (when there were less evils on) taking out level 12-15 ER's in Near Harad/Harondor. I'd log on from work and people would instantly start sending me tells asking me to take down the guards so they could get on with their lives and level up a bit. People started staying in Far Harad for long periods and yes you can make gold there pretty safely, but it takes a vast amount more time than in Near Harad.
Now ER's do have a slight advantage in that no random level 10 ER can end up in Near Harad (There is a hard level limit).
'Legend Killem, that's what, 180 or more deaths already? 3/4 of them on newbies? Imagine Nasira's killcount.'
OK I've been inactive for about 4 months on and off, and my kill count (when I left) was sitting at around 50 (purely ER on FR kills, my FR on ER kills were less but still substantial), and no, noone on that kill list was under 17 (I think, I don't have access to my logs from work and I didn't post most of them), and those are the solo kills I did, I didn't really bother counting the times I was in Nasira's party.
'Newbie spreeing? Or as they say, RolePlaying. Maybe they are right. Maybe it is just the way ER roleplay. I prefer to call it 'legal spreekilling''
Pot, meet kettle. Anyways thats not really the point, it's not just ER on FR. There are a few new players who went straight for ER (we do get some players now and then still), I know because I helped a few out before we got newbiehelpers. I did of course make damn sure they knew that they were outnumbered and they'd have to scout harondor etc and check warscape often because I knew they'd be up against people like daimen, kalas, etc who were coming in every day at that point. It still happens I'm sure, though with the removal of fade it'll make it trickier for both, since you'll end up with patrol's in enemy lands I don't know I haven't tried it much.
I don't know, maybe it's time to fork the code, and split the MUD in two. PK and Non PK. (Or Old PK where the cost in gold, and therefore time was substantial).
fuck you winnetou, i dont spreek, i have 181 kills, the majority of them solo, all on 16+ usually moral guilded or aligned players, yes, i have killed a few newbies but usually asshats like pierre who go out of their way to piss me off, i dont count them toward my killcount and they are few and far between. I cant speak for all ers but lowbies can come into west arda and explore without fear of me on their ass
Hehe, skimming through most of what is written here, I'm thankful for not even being able to play. :P
I haven't logged on in the mud for two weeks of my ordinary life. For those who understand the addiction of this mud, this is a lot. And I haven't even felt a tiny urge of desire to play it again. Why? Because of the status quo. Because of all the reasons that have been mentioned. Because things are getting worse and worse.
I remember when I came back after a 5day break from the mud. You know what? There were 9(nine!) news waiting for me to read. Of course, I frowned at at least 5 of them. This isn't supposed to be happening. As Eznima said, 'not everything that was needs to be changed'.
The guilds. What were you thinking of suddenly letting everybody rich 'buy a guild'? For years it was impossible to become a guild even if you had countless active players and an unending source of gold. And suddenly, guilds start popping up like newborn rabbits. And what's more, you decide to increase guild taxes by hoping it would be the preventing line for more guilds popping up. In fact, it is the line that is going to bring down the ancient guilds in a few months time. You'll see. Vaults are getting drained and if nothing is done, I am positive that by minimum 1year the majority of the old guilds will be disbanded.
And then the Evil Races. There are a countless examples of how their implementation went wrong, several of which have been posted here. But the most important one was not underlined and STRESSED UPON. I will give you the example.
I had a warrior, maxed one. I logged on, wore full eq ( mask, gloves ) and went to lorien signpost. I got hunted by Nasira and attacked by two more of her ERs. I brought them lost southwest of Old Ford. Then I died. I got killed in 8rounds total. Doesn't this sound unbalanced?
Now, imagine a newbie that has a vague knowledge of huntbreaking. Won't that newbie keep dying over and over again after being attacked? Yes. Countless examples of players who died numerous times just because the casual ER gang party decided to have fun. SPREEING. On newbies. Legend Killem, that's what, 180 or more deaths already? 3/4 of them on newbies? Imagine Nasira's killcount. Newbie spreeing? Or as they say, RolePlaying. Maybe they are right. Maybe it is just the way ER roleplay. I prefer to call it 'legal spreekilling'.
And Spansh, new people who come into the game will quickly stop playing after they enter East Arda. But it has been proven by the people who commented on this log that the growth of the mud population is negative.
I won't repeat myself. I'll just rephrase my thoughts: This Mud Stinks. And since many people have said I will come back just the way I've been coming back for the last few masive nukings of my character, I will tell you this: I have no reason for coming back. Just like the majority of the people who left this mud.
New people coming to this game won't care about what changes were made, because they wouldn't have known about them. The game they join with is the game they learn and know.
My point wasn't that they won't care, it's that there is now a very steep learning curve after you hit level 10. (Before if you're into exploring).
New people coming to this game won't care about what changes were made, because they wouldn't have known about them. The game they join with is the game they learn and know.
I'll also point out that even though there's a lot to do in Two Towers, without new changes to the game - for better or worse, all of you would have quit and moved on years ago. It's the same thing everyday if you don't have changes to complain about.
If it's any comfort, Toram, I had trouble sleeping for almost a week after because it bothered me so much. The memory still makes me sad.
It was my dog, Deb. Damn you.
To quote:
'Date: 19. Sep, 2005, 5:34:21 By: Draugluin
When you could have taken your rather unique perspective and come up with something helpful, instead we (the community) get /__this massive misrepresentation of the truth.__/'
Those are your own words buddyboy calling him a liar though I'm sure you'd prefer to argue the semantics of 'misrepresenting the truth'.
For once come off your arrogance trip and instead of launching into yet another of your senseless personal attacks on me such as you've conducted for at least 5 years with both your mortal chars and coder char (and really they are senseless since it's over a /_____/game/_____/ and unless it was your dog I hit in 1998 I can't think of any sane reason for your bizarre grudge) and pay attention to what the /_____/PLAYERS/_____/ are saying because without the players, the MUD is nothing and you can be as much of a power and whatever you want of nothing. Your arrogance and refusal to listen to the people who really keep the game running, the /_____/PLAYERS/_____/, will ultimately bring down the mud more effectively than any other single action by any single person.
Instead of reading everything here and attacking me as your great and single response, for crying out loud read what your present and former player base is saying and do something about it. Or don't. But don't bitch when your players tell you that your changes suck if you aren't willing to heed their input.
Manni isn't a liar, and I didn't call him one.
What I said was true, which he didn't dispute, and just because you, Deboraha (typically) don't care about what is true and what isn't, doesn't mean its not important.
I don't tend to post as spansh anymore but I kinda feel this needed it.
Manni, I had a great time working with you in Grond (Before I went inactive), we never really crossed paths much as players in many years of playing. You'll be missed.
We had some great ideas about unmappable, unscriptable camps (I'm sure some of you will see the irony in that *), it's a shame that I went inactive before we got a chance to finish them in the form I (we I hope) would have liked.
I'm not sure I completely agree with your opinions of how ER's have turned out, but maybe thats because I got into the PvP game very late in my time here (only the last year or so really), but I remember before I had the backing of my map and the rest of the settings I created, I had very little chance of escaping death (unless I knew it was coming or was in mordor and as such on guard, and even then I often died) so there is now quite an immense learning curve for any new player, and that can't be good, sure it's good for the PvP whores (like myself these days whenever I can actually bother to play) but not everyone has 8 years of experience and/or a decent client set up to save their ass. I'm not saying I know how to fix it, but I can see where you (and even Carver who, though I haven't actually voted on any of his PvP petitions, I see your point, though I don't currently agree with your proposed solutions at least someone's thinking).
I'll miss you anyways Manni (though I haven't actually seen you on that much anyways, what with hardly ever logging on myself anyways. I'll raise a beer to you at the pub tonight.
* Even my newbie quest strived for a little randomness to make things interesting.
I just want to make one thing clear, before anyone else makes reference to it. Yes, I did abuse a lot of the game and did exploit some of the bugs in my favor a number of time and I do deserve to be nuked 3/4 of the times i have been. But that does not necessarily mean that I am all-out whiner in reference to the current admin of the mud because as i said that not ALL the changes that has happened are bad. I just believe that the drastic shift of the mud mechanism in turning it into a realistic and 'fair' place to play in simply ruined the imagination/creativity factor which was the most intriguing part of the game.
Expanding the game should always be factor of consideration every year, but that does not mean that:
Everything that was there needs changing.
Not everything needs to be balanced.
Evils and Morals should not always have equal power.
Impartial people should be given the chance to play their game and have their fun.
Not that I am trying to follow the trend of lenghty posts on this particular board, but I do want to give my openion about this matter even though I havent been playing for some time now. I just want to give one important openion because I have a dozen of them in my head in regards to the game changes and i havent up-to-date with everything that has happened recently.
When I started playing this MUD, the main thing that attracted me to it was that it was simply a 'Game'. What I really disagree with in regards to the trend of changes happening now is the unbelievable (misguided) focus of the Admin to turn the mud into a realistic world (reality show as i like to call it) and balance the game in every way. Example being the change of fade into comoflauge because it apparently is unrealistic for a player to be faded while fighting or whatever. I mean, why? Why would u want the game to be realistic in every angel? The fun part of the game, in my openion, is that you could do stuff that are imaginary and can only happen in your imagination. I would be ignorant to say that every change that has happened during the past 5 years are bad, but I would honestly say that most were misguided and ruined the playing factor of the game.
Deboraha nailed it right on, before when players used to bitch and decide to leave, the admin were comfortable enough to say go to hell, we have other people coming. Now, that wont happen anymore. Simply because of the reasons she gave us already and I totally agree with her in every perspective. The admin can no longer ignore the constant and rapid decrease of the player base in the mud. I logged on once this week and it was only 18 players on, 18!! I remember 3 years ago, when there was a problem connecting to the server of the mud and one of the ainur commented that when he saw 25 people on at that time he had only seen it before in 1996 when the mud had just started. That sums it all to the admin of the mud, you are on the wrong track. Weather you are too proud to admit it or not, you are ruining this place, because this place is only good because of the people in it.
Finally, i would like to comment on draugluin's labelling of lack of voice in concern to matter of changes in the mud. Draugluin, you only need to remember the Dev 22 petition I constructed in reference to your genius guild change. What did you say? You thought that I was anti-change bastard that would just commercialize anything against the admin, and even though a huge chunk of people supported me you decided to ignore us. Well, I think you can see for yourself how your change ruined one of the most prestigious factors of the game for mortals, and that is simply being part of a guild.
How can you fix/test this? Simply, tune the game back to 1999 to where the original ERs were there and leave that mud running on a sperate port. See how much activity you would get on both ends. Of course, that is damn near impossible but hey, I am just trying to make a point.
What a burden it must be for you, Draugluin, to be surrounded on all sides by hordes of dishonest people. It must be so because any time someone offers any criticism or says anything remotely negative about you they are instantaneously branded a liar even when there would be zero motivation for them to lie, such as Manni's case here. Manni stands to gain nothing by speaking falsely, however, you stand to gain by calling him a liar.
Anyway, I don't care about that here to be perfectly honest. You can have t2t and enjoy it, Draugluin. I'm done there and happy to be so. I read Manni's log because someone pointed it out to me since I'd been saying the same things about the series of drastic changes ruining what used to be a fun game. It's become as over-engineered and overwrought as that 6-wheeled car that Chrysler put out a few years ago and it will similarly become just as superfluous and obsolete.
For years t2t admin relied on the myth of an unending supply of fresh faces to keep the mud going when they made an unpopular change but the period of that myth's validity has passed. The mud is a text game with all the limitations of being such. The internet is now loaded with graphic-based games that are just as cost-free as t2t to play minus the bullshit which dominates t2t. If you truly wish to see t2t continue as a viable game then you can't tell your player base to 'my way or the highway' since more and more and choosing the latter.
What Manni and a slew of other players are trying to say, Draugluin, is that the Emperor has no clothes. It's time you stop running about naked and listen to them... or don't. It's your choice and the choice of those who support these changes just as it is the choice of the players to endure those changes or move on. I chose the latter since I want to have fun when I play a game and, frankly, the fun parts of the game are gone. Maybe if enough people choose the latter you will finally be prepared to listen... or you won't. Time will tell.
Btw, Manni, well said. It's a shame someone sees the needs to censor you instead of listening to what you have to say, both before and now.
Tarzhayan's my favorite town. I don't always have the time to play the game but I do try to keep my character aging up so that I can stay in my legion. I never liked PvP in the game, don't like being killed or killing...So I just stick around Far Harad for the most part.
Manni, saying you're disappointed in how things turned out doesn't really do much. Why not mail ideas to an ainur that might put the game back the way it was meant to be?
'I became increasingly concerned that the evil race integration
would be a disaster for the majority of the social, casual, role
playing, and solo player bases.'
I don't care if that's premonition or 20/20 hindsight. It's absolutely brutal to try and play as a solo player anymore... and with the rapidly declining player base and increase in people who are idling/whining wishing that East Arda wasn't a death trap how does one not solo?
'I felt the process of the ER policy was dominated by one or two
people who had misguided visions and were entirely unresponsive
to constructive feedback. And then they changed the High Council
voting weights such that they got five times the vote value that
Overlords receive.'
I've observed that Valinor has become more and more resistant to constructive feedback as of late. Want to suggest a change? Piss off and file a petition. File a petition? Got support from the player base? Piss off and don't post any more petitions. Just want to make the mud good again? Piss off and play somewhere that's interested in being good.
...and wtf are Council doing casting 5 votes to a single vote by an OL? I can see where those who are 'in charge' want more authority (why do they call me Mini-Hitler, do you think?). Think about it... when a player wants to immort, Council decides if they can. Then, the newbie ainu is taught and indoctrinated (for good or ill) in proper Valinor ettiquette. Then, the newly graduated ainur form a pool of potential Lords and Overlords that are chosen (again) by the Council... but because Council doesn't (apparently) trust the Overlords, it 'needs' five times as many votes?
I'll concede that I'm feeling a little angry and confrontational lately, about the way the mud has gone. After ten years, you tend to take a pretty proprietary handle on a place... have lots of friends who've stopped playing, etc, etc...
Guess I'm just likely to believe any 'first hand account'. Funny how that happens when the place you have used for years as a respite and bit of a good time from the weary world becomes the weary world.
You know Draug, I appreciate all the hard work the devs put in. I think the mud is a smashing triumph of teamwork and imagination. There are places that are so well described and no full of imagery, that it is actually possible to feel immersed in Professor Tolkien's work of art. Thats why I am having such a hard time stomaching this. Many of these places take time and planning to get to, hours of exploring to find, and much more time to fully enjoy. With the current state of affairs, many of these beautifully coded places will be unattainable by a great deal of players (esp. on the moral side) as soon after they set foot into east arda, they are targeted and destroyed by evils.
I know that Arda was not a friendly place, but I seem to remember a party of men, dwarves and hobbits being able to travel from one end to the other in relative anonymity. I know that balance is being looked at, and I hope that a good compromise can be found. It just saddens me to see people that have been here for a long long time and have a great deal of love for this place taking pot shots at each other.
Finally, it is easier to take any 'first hand account' as truth, when it is the only straw that you have to grasp at. I think that your presence on the comm today and your postings later in the day were good steps towards better communication. I'll quit rambling now, and as always this is just my opinion.
We've already had this discussion on the comm this evening, so I'll recap my arguments. The region plan was lengthy, but vague in the proposition that I approved. My comments on approval stated that it had potential but implied 'implementation' was key. I had a conversation with several powers and OLs where we all stressed the importance of implementation. The consensus was that implementation was key and details/balance would be worked out during the course of development. The plan was presented as 'what needs to get passed for ER dev to move forward' and we all approved it as such. The political pressure to approve this plan did get to me and it's unfortunate it did, though the plan was overwhelmingly, if not unanimously approved. The vote came at a time when I wasn't sure what my future in Valinor would be, though the voting weight change made that decision exceedingly simple. I'm not presenting myself as godly, the staunch, unwavering idealogue. I'm human and have been known to be opportunistic. I will freely admit that I was part of the problem. Maybe 'increasing concern over the direction of ERs' was not as accurate as 'increasing concern over the direction of Valinor'.
This is enough to make one sad. When you could have taken your rather unique perspective and come up with something helpful, instead we (the community) get this massive misrepresentation of the truth.
We get: 'I became increasingly concerned that the evil race integration would be a disaster'
And: 'I felt the process of the ER policy was dominated by one or two people who had misguided visions'
When of course, as you know (but seem to have forgotten), reality is:
You never mentioned any 'increasing concerns', and ultimately, 3 weeks before retiring, you yourself APPROVED the plan for regions, battlepoints, etc. So not only was the process not dominated by others (you were part of it), but you agreed with the plan, expressing that agreement on the record with a 'yes' vote!
I guess I just feel disappointed that you couldn't simply say you don't like how things turned out, or were wrong, or what have you -- that at least would be respectable. Or maybe you weren't wrong at all, and you have incredibly helpful suggestions.
As you know, this sort of stuff isn't easy to dream up, nor easy to get right, nor easy to make a reality....the very least you could do, I would think, is not distort reality to try and paint a really inaccurate picture for other people who are completely disconnected, and likely to believe any 'first hand account'.
I don't want to generalize about Castamir's opinions, but my opinions were typically summed up by 'No'. I can understand obviously why that's frustrating to admin trying to get things done, but until there's a very good plan without significant disruption, I could never justify voting 'Yes'. So it's not that I had great opinions and ideas for change, because I don't think I was in Valinor long enough to come up with a plan, which is an insanely difficult thing to do (as you have seen). I don't want to huff myself up because that's a silly game. This is simply my perspective on a matter in which I have little stake.
Mazel tov, Manni.
The MUD would have been a fuckload better had you and Castamir's opinions a couple years ago not been sidelined.
I'm into it.
Amen brother.