thanks for serve look at the balance
Leave your b/f or g/f that should do.
Take a day off at work, that should do.
Some people just don't have those 8 hours to relevel!
You shouldnt leave your party. :)
6 for me being in log!
deboraha, losses from death have been DRASTICALLY reduced since the old guild war days, i can get assraped down to 14th and by 19th again in about 8 hours of playing time so in effect they did allow for the constant warlike scenario
The problem is not that there is playerkilling. The problem is not that the evil guilds may now kill without financial consequence. The problem is not that there are ERs and FRs.
The problem is that there is no control over how much pk occurs and where it is restricted to outside of the slightly less deadly newbie regions (ie: Far Harad and West Arda where pk can still occur from your own 'kind').
There is no pause, no breathing room for players. Even in the worst of guildwars that have occurred over the years on the mud, the action and attacks have had an ebb and flow where the concerned parties were less active with the killing which allowed them to recover and continue if they chose to do so.
The fact is that you cannot have that situation infinitely and maintain a viable and active playerbase. This series of changes is a clusterfuck and the announced repairs have the same effect as putting a bandaid on a bulletwound, but at least it looks outwardly nice that the admin is paying a hair more attention. However, window dressing is still just window dressing.
Off the top of my head I can think of a relatively easy solution that would not require massive amounts of time and code to repair the situation, restore balance, still allow for the thematic fighting among evil and free races, have nothing to do with the lawsys or fines but it would require 1 painful and vital first step that this game administration won't ever take: admitting that they screwed the pooch with their current changes and saying they need to take things back that they have done. Oh, and maybe apologizing to the players but that wouldn't be vital, just make the players feel a hair better.
Oh well. Like I said before, good luck.
Change the game again, plz :P
Otoron: 'But, did you honestly design this years ago with the idea that Athin could run from his guildhall next door to Moria and attack you there with no fear of at least a report?'
Hehe. There is one flaw with this, Otoron, and that is that I wasn't in my guildhall when I heard Teion and company were at Stormbow. I was at Harondor. I -do- gold and eq you know. People can kill me when I am doing that, if they really want to.
Thanks.
(Don't bother thanking me for correcting your flawed logic, I don't mind at all)
Once again, you all can stfu&d 4 making me agree w/ Eznima.
Perry: I love you, as you know. But the issue some might argue is: that Sauron-serving FRs should be unprotected and uninvolved in the lawsys, and as people in FR lands know (judge, etc.) they do so, should be attacked on sight. Blah blah, whatever. Just saying. 'Moral' FRs aren't whining, just saying 'hello?!'. And stfu, you're SoU, and though you don't do it, none of you get to talk, as all you did for five years was make gold in Loth, guildbreak, and report.
But, more importantly.. Castamir, stormbow rocks. Great quest, best emotes of any unique added lately (god, Aiglos, hahaha). But, honestly. The quest is designed to make you low on HP/EP, and that's great. Cool. I was always paranoid about my 'who enemy' people showing up. But, did you honestly design this years ago with the idea that Athin could run from his guildhall next door to Moria and attack you there with no fear of at least a report?
If so, I won't complain. But I seriously doubt it...
Technically it was two az :P
3 of us took out barren in less time than it took 6 of em to kill you
to be fair, 6 being able to assrape 1 IS balanced...
Filch, my god man. Gold star for word usage :P
I havn't seen Perry in a while...
There's some sexy SoU's out there Duncan!
That's because evils can just happily run to lothlorien bridge and a zillion places more without having to beat a sentinel or seeing a patrol on his tail.
Its all so simple! :)
> Teion, you don't need to enter a guild or to mess with people if you
> don't want to fight. You could still mud.
That's the thing now, isn't it? You could be a level 5 learning the game and be gang-banged by ERs. It's free-kill zone, baby!
' If you're running around Edoras, you're going to be cautious, ready for anything. But if you're just sitting around Kadar resting after killing the DBS spirit, you might not be ready for a knife in the back.'
If you're resting after killing the DBS spirit, you're as stupid as they come. Both places are as deadly as the other. As I mentioned before it's the playerbase, not the towns/regions/whatever excuse you will find. There are about 10 free race players who enter the evil lands in search for prey, if you look at the evil race players it's pretty much everyone above lvl15.
That wouldnt really help much, Vermond, if you get three backstabs on your ass. You're dead in 1 or 2 rounds. :p
Nyx, shame on you! Don't party with SoUs!
Good log anyway:)
Teion, you don't need to enter a guild or to mess with people if you don't want to fight. You could still mud.
I myself prefer messing with people so I have people to kill. Well...preferred...I'm gone anyway:)
Yeah, however this has more to do with the player than the coded advantages. Any FR attacked in Mirkwood can run in the closest region and get patrols on his attacker(s). Since patrols seem to attack you each time you move a new room, the target will not be taking any damage at all while the patrols are beating down the attackers.
Perry: I don't think morals just want to report and make gold, but rather give the ERs some disincentive from merrily killing someone every five minutes.
Abborre: I would say that in a way, Mirkwood would be more dangerous for an FR, just like Near Harad would be more dangerous for an ER. Even though it's the home turf of that side, an enemy in that area probably has some objective in mind, making it more hazardous for the casual, unassuming resident.
For example, if Grimscar's running around Kadar camo'ed, he's probably not there to see the sights and have some pacoofs, he's there to nail the first opportune target.
Same thing with ERs in FR lands. Chances are they're looking for someone they can use as a pinata.
I'd say this makes your own side more hazardous in a way. If you're running around Edoras, you're going to be cautious, ready for anything. But if you're just sitting around Kadar resting after killing the DBS spirit, you might not be ready for a knife in the back.
I couldn't agree more with Taudrek.
I spent the whole of the Manni comment thread resisting the urge to make a long pompous comment. But now I've finally given in. Sorry for the second posting, I only wanted to correct a spelling error. Perhaps a moderator can remove it or something.
Perry U'lairi the dunedain Deathmaster (Shadowspawn of Mordor)
In hibernation for another 16 days 8 hours 10 minutes 55 seconds
Mirkwood is as dangerous for an ER as it is for an FR.
I think its funny, I used to hear people complain when evils would report, saying that we should not be able to use lawsys. Now, we cant...and people complain that we are outside law sys.
I think what morals want is the ability to report evils, and make gold, but not for evils to have the ability to report. Not all morals, but some.
by the way, I am stuck down here in school, and cant log on. someone tell me how much time I have to get out of hibernation?
Around two years ago the administration reduced the stat and skill losses incurred from PvP deaths. A chance which is still in place to this day. I?m not sure what the logic behind the change was. It might have been to encourage players to interact, or it might have been to promote roleplaying. I don?t know, although I?m sure that the reasoning was noble enough to whoever thought of it.
But one of the consequences of the change was that victims started to profit from their lawsys reimbursements. People like Sime were quick to exploit this fact. Did you know that Sime actually lets people kill his characters just so he can raise their fines and use the reimbursements to level himself up? It?s an avowedly gutless tactic, but effective nonetheless. The best way to harm someone is to simply let them kill you. Which is, of course, ridiculous.
And that?s the main factor which discouraged me from gangbanging. I want to hurt people when I kill them, not enrich their coffers and do them a favour. So I made an effort to work with as few people as possible on playerkills, so as to limit the amount of reimbursements the victim would receive. But there were three main exceptions to this rule of mine:
I ? Guildwars. I refer to particurly vicious bloodthirsty conflicts, like the ones which BkD and Udungul used to have. Wars where everyone is carrying a ton of healing and everyone is expecting to be attacked. Anyone who lets their guard down or ventures too far from their halls is likely to be ripped apart. Gangbangs are an inevitability in that kind of warfare.
II ? People who are too skilled and/or paranoid to be killed in any other way. Rendor and Barazbund are examples of the first category. People who WANT to be attacked so they can turn it around. No matter how much force you bring down on them, they always seem to have another trick up their sleeve.
It also applies to paranoid players. People who aren?t necessarily good, but are always careful. The kind of people who always carry healing with them, who never go below 200hp and who always used to fade when doing anything that was even remotely risqu?. I?m not going to name names here, but a few people have accused me of being like this. :P
III ? Mordor. You don?t get reimbursements from being killed in Mordor. It?s a lawless free-for-all zone. It?s also a relatively safe free-for-all-zone, it has an abundance of huntbreaks and an abundance of potential hazard points. I never saw the point of taking risks in Mordor. There were a few people I enjoyed playing with, such as Alkath and Calenril. But most of the people you attempt solo in Mordor will just run to the well. So why bother? Why let them escape? Why not just bring a bang and make sure they die? That was the logic behind those much-reviled gangbangs.
The problem I see with Arda at the moment is that point III is no longer exclusive to the dark lands, it now applies to ALL of Eastern Arda. I don?t fault the logic of the evil races. I fault the system.
Now the gangbang will just increase, no fines to pay or anything, and its not just pks, its theft too, why not steal all gold from XX or phial/vov? you dont have anything to worry about, especially when a certain thief steals from you, run to gh, come back hide with 150 stealth then you cant search, then he type stop and steal again, once in combat you type stop hide and steal again??? Its ridiculous, and I cant see a FR advantage you all talking about, we have better huntbreaks for assassins, not for archers,warriors,etc, its not all breaks that you can go, just the double breaks. To walk in East arda for ER its easy, its a large place, but for FR its just north and south, you dont have many options there in ER land.
And to make parties with 3 members, will increase the parties nothing else, they will make 3 parties of 3 instead of 1 with 5. Will be just worse.
And I agree with anyone that say this game turned into a PK mud full of $%?)+++#@. Thanks.
No, care to explain?
'You are pretty doomed to finish your life in the form of an icy statue.' Does that sentence seem hilarious to anyone else?
I think that the lawlessness is a large factor regarding the imbablance, but I've also been thinking about the the firepower that is currently allowed to be brought down on a player. It just seems that player killing should be a bit harder and that you should have a chance to escape.
I can understand that if you are running around at 50hp with no healing, you probably deserve to not get very far if attacked, but if you get dropped before you can even get your flask out of your cloak and run two rooms that seems problematic. If you have to suffer the consequences of getting killed, I think that you should at least have a fighting chance against large parties.
This goes back to the bang argument that has plagued us for some time, but two solutions I see are limiting the size of a party an assassin can lead, which has been hashed and rehashed before, or perhaps scaling the amount of exp/stat loss one takes in a gangbang. For example if you get player killed solo you may lose 8 total stats and 10% of your exp. If you get killed by a 5 person bang, you lose 2 stats and 1% of your exp.
So is 'help pk' still in the game?
Eznima said it right. The difference is that there's no choice anymore whether you want to participate in pkilling or not. Right now, pkilling is forced on you because evils have a free shooting range.
And heck, when are they ever going to fix the gaps in the patrol area's? That's unbalance alright. Evil can just roam free while when we set one foot in Harad, we get a patrol on our tail.
And then I'm not even talking about 199hp backstabs with a double wielded shadow sword :P
awesome log, great timing!
Just bring more friends with you. You're in a guild are you not? You don't have to kill to keep the balance, there is such thing as safety in numbers and larger parties.
The only real imbalance is for the unguilded players who play the MUD for the quests and exploring alone.
The difference is the lawlessness.
> I like how it was perfectly balanced when ERs were getting slaughtered by a few FR assassins, but there's such a big problem when it is the other way around.
I like how you present obvious misconceptions about your discutants' opinions in order to justify your completely false point about the current apparently imbalanced situation.
Castamir, you are wrong. Changes did affect this quest and I will tell you how very simply. Before, you could who enemy and see who are the potential people who would kill you. Just because you are moral you do not necessarily expect an Evil guild will automatically come kill you because a) they would be afraid of fines and so forth; b) they could have some kind of treaty with the opposite guild. So, in the case of the attacker, he would have to worry both about the treaty with the opposite guild the guy is a member of, and about the fines attached to it.
All that aside, if only one guy came to kill Teion then he would probably have not succeeded, plus, it will be a hassle convincing people to come join in to kill someone for no reason but armour or weaponry that they probably wont get to use (i.e. aiglos). They would worry about fines.
Because there is serve, those attackers do not need a reason to kill anyone, they just do it. If they fail, oh well nothing lost. If they succeed, free kill, free EQ, no hassle.
No its not balanced this way, just because he can attack you back for this kill does not mean the place is balanced, it just means that this mud promotes PK in everyway. The admin before would get pissed off if you call this game Quake because of all the pk's, they would say they promote RP and fun. Now, the game promotes warfare and pk all the time. So, yes, its a text based quake game now.
I like how it was perfectly balanced when ERs were getting slaughtered by a few FR assassins, but there's such a big problem when it is the other way around. You still have the same advantages, just quit whining and use your deaths to get more cautious - If there's something wrong, it is not related to one side having more advantage than the other, it is with the general way the game is being pushed to.
Wait. Tell me, what exactly changed in this area within the last two years? How is serve related to it?
I intentionally coded the storm bow into an extremely dangerous area -- it makes sense for the most powerful weapon in the game. In fact, the rest of this area was not my creation, and the burrow worked this way from the day Moria was opened.
Anyone could kill you there this way if you dropped your guard there. Don't blame unrelated changes, please. Also, do I need to point out what you did wrong here? The game is about learning from your mistakes...
Zurzum has gotta laugh here because he got chalked just about 2m before his post:P. All I gotta say is something is wrong here, put yourself in the shoes of the attacked in both of these recent logs.
At least you should have a CHANCE to get away, this is a bit in the wrong direction i would say.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Obviously it is.
That's nonsense, Abborre.
do focus dodge,focus defense,tell armand got attacked at grey havens come!!!
The difference in balance isn't code, it's the playerbase.