Draugluin shouldn't have opened his yap on this issue to begin with, but that doesn't mean he can shut mine.
Lotraz?! There's a name I haven't seen in forever!
BB currently exists? :P
By the way, THE MOST RIDICULOUS thing I've seen in this MUD (and I've seen many) is that BB didn't get a legend. Is that fixed now?
You realize there is as many 'spirit of the game' as there are players?
I've said several times that I don't know who deleted my posts. There is no 'alleged' about them being deleted though.
Ultimately, my point isn't that I want Draugluin to resign. I just want the Powers of the MUD to understand the spirit of the game... and that trying to change the spirit of the game is inherantly wrong, and that's what Draugluin seemed to be advocating in his post 'Freedom Kills.'
As for this '...such as Boffo pontificating on what I think or why I said what I said...' YOU said what you said. You put it out on the public forum for discussion. Now, you made some lame claim that I didn't really understand what you said... from my first impression of your words to my final verdict, you seemed clearly to be advocating that we ought to embrace the change of T2T into a wargame. Well, the first of my posts which was deleted, I asked you to explain how my perception of what you said was wrong.
Here's the stone cold truth. Ninety percent of what I say about what I say in Forums, or petitions, or whatnot, is constructive and valid. You've got a lot of fucking nerve to invite this sort of conversation to come back to the Forums, without actually addressing the fact that my posts were censored.
I think his whole point of bringing it here is because you ALLEGEDLY deleted it to silence him.
If you're here, I can only assume it is to read logs of players doing things (of which this doesn't necessarily qualify, but that doesn't make it bad). I'm here at the moment to see how many non-bang logs I can find, but thats really beside the point.
If you want to discuss my resigning (hah), why Valinor hates you and wants to see you and your puppies tortured, or any of that other silliness, you can stay here too. You'd just get in the way other places...and nobody has time for that, there ARE real problems that silly conjecture and hyperbole will only enflame and enlarge.
If you want to discuss problems or solutions or questions about the game, you probably belong (at least) on the T2T forums...that is, if you want either the knowledge of, or input from, anyone in Valinor. We're not looking here for ideas, input, or anything else, is the point. We also generally don't have the time or ability to respond to things here...which for some of you is bad, because accuracy is important to you, and for some of you is great, because it lessens the chances you can't just make any old thing up. Anyway - Its a log site. And a cool one. But a log site nonetheless.
If you have questions about things, you can also ask them on the forums or even contact me (or whoever is PoA at the time) in-game. People do this fairly often - they get answers from people who know (even if the answers aren't fun, or spicy, or what they want to hear), not by people who don't [which happens here all the time...such as Boffo pontificating on what I think or why I said what I said...or others who comment on how and why Valinor operates, the whole consumer/producer thing, etc].
Similarly if you want comments on, or views of, the log of something you did, then you probably don't want to bring it to the same T2T forums and expect me to comment. (though there is a log section) It'd be silly, and out of place. ;)
See you elsewhere, or not.
D
At the moment, a single vote of a power, say Draugluin, has more weight than the total of the votes of the current Overlords.
Mortal Council was a big failure, it was better than petitions or the 'Immortal Council' though.
What if the MUD citizens offered to make sure the bills were paid, and the admins/coders just followed the direction the citzens want it to go...have the mortal council back, etc...
damn, thanks for disproving almost everything I said.
I WAS CORRECT, HOWEVER, IN THAT WE DONT PAY FOR IT!!!
(well, we dont HAVE to pay a monthly fee...i know alot of people donate)
Actually, your statement is wrong. In most cases on the markets there is no 'Company B providing exactly the same product'. Instead, it's 'Company B providing a similar product'. The goods and services are not (mostly) homogenous; the most realistic market of model of the four (oligopoly, monopoly, perfect competition, monopolistic competition) in most markets (of course, there are exceptions) is the last one.
Also, the second half of your statement is wrong. There are other MUDs, there are other Tolkien-based muds, there are other MUDs based on similar engine, there are other multi-user online games, etc. Yes, there is (AFAIK) no other T2TMUD. As there is no other Boeing, Microsoft, Siemens or Procter&Gamble.
The only problem is, Boffo, is that consumers, by and large, pay for the products they consume. If company A doesnt make the exact product they want, those consumers will purchase from company B.
We dont pay for this game. if we did, I know for a fact that this game would be a thing in my past.
because we dont pay for it, there is no company B trying to provide the same exact service, competing with Company A.
Colour me naive.
I honestly believe that no one immorts with the ulterior motive of making the game suck. I had seen some vague glimmers that the current admin was concerned about and wanted to do something to reverse this current trend... the change from Roleplay and Exploration with occasional Playerkilling to a game that is All Out War... and the massive exodus of players who just aren't interested in playing an all-out wargame.
Anyways. I thought I saw this glimmer. It actually seemed to me that some of the Admin were willing to listen, and work on fixing things. But then Draugluin created his post... He seemed to be saying that T2T is a Wargame now, and the sooner we put asside our Roleplay, and give up our Adventuring and fight the happier we will be... and that's why I asked him to consider resigning.
You can't ask your consumers to adapt to the product you have. You have to market what your consumers want. If Draugluin can't grasp that, he can't be CEO anymore.
...having said that, there ARE admin who seem willing to talk to the players, and who do want to help. I just hope that Draugluin can be one of them, because honestly, I don't know who could or should replace him.
Guh..what I put in was really contradictory. Anyways, my point is this.
You all know what the mentality of the admins here is.
It won't change. The changes to the changes they impliment will not be what you want. The game will get worse.
So stop playing it. If you so desperatly need the MUD but can't stand it as it is, get a bunch of people together and try and get a copy of an older version of T2t up and running elsewhere..if you can. Or make a new mud the way you like it, there is certainly the skill base needed to do that on the mud.
Let the admins have their retarded bastardized version of T2T. They can sit up in Valinor and smile gleefully over their masterfully coded game.
Happy in the knowledge that there are no more pesky players around to ruin their fun.
I do agree, which is why I quit playing. But for how many months have your complaints gone unanswered? Or been rejected simply because 'We the admins disagree.'
It's called flogging a dead horse.
By continuing to play in the current environment, you are giving your approval to the changes made.
Not one single person from the mud I've spoken to likes what has happened and I talk to a fairly broad church of mudders.
The mud has dropped to nearly 50% of the activity it enjoyed even just a year ago.
Admins. Ask yourself this question: Why is it, that players who have been able to remain playing for 10years with all the change that has happened to the game in that time have found these new changes so unacceptable that they have quit a game they've put 10years into?
I logged in briefly to read the news, the latest article being a poll result.
What idea was it that won? 'Some other idea'.
Which is something so vauge that it renders the poll absolutely useless. If I assumed a high enough level of intelligence on the part of the current admins, I'd think they inserted that option, knowing that it would be the most likely choice, to deliberatly neuter the polls relevance. So they can now rationalise whatever action they take(Ill bet cold hard cash it won't be what the players want) by saying 'Well, you all wanted some other idea. This is some other idea'.
Everyone who has immorted knows full well what the attitude of the admins is, they don't even pretend that it's otherwise. 'Fuck the players, they don't know shit and all they do is complain.'
I wonder why we do?...
Uhm,
Hi, been a while. I just thought i'd mention that for you guys to complain about the changes now...welcome to the club. I've been doing that for the last 10 years. But I do think that change is inevitable, and we'll always like the way it was before more than the way it has become. (grass is greener over there, etc)
Just try to complain enough so that they'll change it eventually, if it is such a serious problem. For me though, the er/battlepoint system isn't such a big deal.
Basically I consider it normal to be stalked by huge gangbang parties, so my playstyle hasnt changed much since the days of the guild wars. I dont have a big beef with this system, although I understand that not everyone can enjoy such an environment.
If that was directed at me, Hirgail, I apologize for upsetting you.
However, I have never complained about any changes in the past, not publicly, and I dont think privately.
In all actuality, if no one else complained, or voiced their displeasure, I would most likely remain silent, and either stop playing completely, or eventually learn to enjoy it.
If one person complains, no one will hear.
If two people complain, maybe, just maybe, they have a legimate point.
If hundreds complain, then someone SHOULD be listening.
If you dont agree with us, then by all means, voice your opinion, as I have chosen to do. However, dont just tell me to stop complaining. If you dont want to read what I have to say, then go surf the web somewhere else.
I like most people on this comment section..so it really pains me to say this.
You-are-fucking-dumb.
How long have you complained about essentially the same thing for?
What effect has it had?
None.
Some people define insanity as repeating behaviors that are pointless or ultimatly of no positive value.
well...no.
Just trying to show that making small changes, here and there, that detract from the game can ultimatly result in a completely different game.
By making losing less painful, you made winning pointless.
Good post Perry, and Boffo.
Why change something that seemed to work so well before? Just add to it, add more quests, more areas, make the place bigger, add side things...but this drastic, huge change in game mechanics is just crazy...
Kelos
Are you saying Middle Earth is round? :/
I wonder what would happen if someone wrote this letter to Hasbro:
to whom it may concern:
I would like to request you change the game monoploy back to the Way it was. I understand that a few people complained about landing on Park Place, and having to pay to much rent, but I think that the opinions of the millions of us who love the game should matter. Removing Park Place and lowering the rent on Boardwalk only take away from a great game. Also, as the game has always been on a square board, I would also like to ask for you to stop putting it on a round surface, as this makes the game confusing and pointless.
Mr Hasbro, you took a great game, made pointless changes, and now its no fun anymore. Yeah, we keep playing, but mostly because we are hanging on to the hope that you will hear our voice and restore the game to what it was.
I guess it was easier when criticizing Eredor, huh?
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Censorship outside this page? I shall prossecute Draugluin! Only we can censor stuff! Damn him!
When I first posted this, I disabled rankings, had to repost because I forgot to cut the lines into paragraphs. I hadn't really planned for this to be a popularity garnering exercise.
Don't feel bad about agreeing with me. Once you get past my shield of arrogance, you'll see I have a lot of good ideas.
As for the posts of mine that were deleted on the Forums...
Well, I don't know what Draugluin does to pay the bills. I only know that he's an amateur coder and site administrator (and by amateur I mean doesn't get paid, not unskilled). I am willing to forgive him for making poor decisions on an administrative level, that doesn't mean I'll let them pass without comment or action.
The post that I copied from Forums and posted here... well, I find it extra mind-boggling that 'someone' deleted it... again, I say 'someone' because I don't know who it was -although I happened to be online when it happened, and Draugluin posted to and locked that thread moments after I made the post. Where the hell was I? ...so, in the very post itself, I pointed out that Censorship in a free society is always a bad idea from an administrations point of view, because it always draws increased activity from the censored party.
If my post had just been left, and if not answered at least ignored, would I have been compelled to post it here?
What forum thread is this discussion going on in?
Im gunna copy all you people and say this: THis is the first time I've ever agreed with boffo:( afk while I kill myself. Bye.
This log gets a 6 because it made me agree with Boffo.
Polar bears don't beat penguins, they live on different hemisphere.
My main question for the Ainur, is why did it have to change? I feel, like with Dev 47, that this game is being turned into a World of Warcraft game. They want rankings now for taking Regions with these battlefields.
What happened to building your on reputation based on actions? Nasira doesn't need a ranking for most FR's to fear her when she runs a party into FR lands.
I don't want this mud to turn into WoW, I want it to be the same MUD it was when I joined, and what I feel in love with: Freedom, love of Tolkein, the people, the role playing and the level of detail that this world was built with.
It's just changing into something it really never needed to be. If you want it to be like WoW, then just go play that game...please.
The mud generally isn't fun now, im not gonna lie. When i get on to try and spark up something that i used to play, it just isnt there at all. I can't even think about starting back up again, because there are just way to many changes that I dont like.
Pounder:
I don't think we have had any moderators from Valinor since Draugluin left over an argument about censorship where most except him seemed to be against at the time (ironically, same mentality made Boffo post the log here) and Tilion was removed because of inactivity. We're following the general MP and QI rules of mud for a variety of reasons, however there's no guarantee you won't end up like Khranim.
Valid points from Boffo and you, Eznima. I studied Corporate Strategy last semester and aced it, this isn't so much different. The be all and end all of it is that T2T is just a game, meant for fun. And when you stop having fun, you don't want to play anymore, lots of other alternatives out there. Not that i'm leaving or taking a stand or anything, just nodding my head at you guys. Been sad to see a few people leave, since their hand was forced.. *sigh*
I'll have to echo something Otoron said not terribly long ago.
Damn you, administration, for making me agree with BOFFO.
I am impressed by the fact that Boffo managed to express our ultimate concern over the current situation of the mud in one single paragraph. Props for that. No point in repeating what we have said endlessly before. I just wanna summarize my problem in one sentence or two:
Its sad when the admin think that certain changes merit being standing there forever and ever just because a huge amount of work/code was done on it. By that I am refering to the battlepoints, new ER's and the new guild system. The very low concern on how negatively these changes are affecting the 'enjoyable' factors of the game is really sad. (using sad because any other word would just be hostile
Maybe that was more than 2 sentences, hope its not a burden to read:p
Oh oops, one thing i missed, the ainur make everything of entitlement tied in to how much they have coded and developed the game, they have no concept that players have put any effort into the game to make it what it is. This will never change unless it is run by people who actually once in a while (say more than once a year) use their alts and go play for fun (not for testing purposes). There is no tie between having some sorta of entitlement to being on the two towers and playing the two towers and putting in years of effort and time.
Boffo, your treating with draugluin with a level of respect he doesn't deserve whatsoever. He is clearly a very poor leader, has no ability to talk to the public or do anything close to it, and feels massively inferrior when people bring up very valid points because in the end a majority of them are ignored and forgotten or in the rare case are done after maybe a year of constant comments on how bad the situation is, whereas opposed to something of huge change being put in with very little thought but clearly just from a few fracture minded ainur. For instance, I tried to bring up MT and how to change it, but draugluin ignored my comments compared to everyone else on the comm and finally made a huge rant the second I said something about being lame and ignoring me. This is his mentality, he thinks somehow he is smart or superior, there is no point in arguing, its like being an extra on a set and arguing with the start of the show webster (if he was an ass etc etc) when he thinks he's the best shit ever. Except of course the mud is going down hill faster than a polar bear can beat off on a penguin. The guys running this site need to grow some balls and remove all the ainur accounts that have any add/remove access too. This isn't a T2T site and therefore should have zero moderation on it. Sure they can punish people on the mud for what they say here, but thats the extent of it period. If they don't understand that, they are blind just like a majority of the changes recently put in.
Read the title of the log, thanks.
Could we keep this kinda stuff in the t2t forum and not let it spill out?
K, Thanks.